Free Aid to illegal aliens [Archive]

boydme

08-11-2003, 04:30 AM

Well down here, we have parkland hospital, which is free to everyone. So thats where all the illegals go. And they cost our state 3 BILLION dollars a year.
Oh boo-fucking-hoo. a tiny little percentage of your income is added to the tiny little percentage of others' incomes, and it all adds up to 3 billion dollars a year. if it bothers you that much, go to the fucking highest court in your state and write a petition, I'm sure the supreme court would love to hear it...
ok, yeah, its unfair that illegal immigrants dont pay taxes, but what are you gonna do about it? its called activism buddy--i cant stand it when all people do is bitch and never do anything.

WTF! IF YOU FUCKING COME TO AMERICA LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH BITCH! I swear, america needs to claim English as their national language. I'm tired of all the mexicans/hispanics that come to this country and then are too fucking lazy to learn to speak english.
Have you considered an alternative? What about the hispanic and other immigrants that come here with no money whatsoever...? They dont have the money to pay to learn to speak english. What if those people didn't have money where they came from and couldnt afford education, so they came here in order to earn money so they could get an education...? (run-on) Stop bitching and read a little. You, like me, have no idea what those people's lives are like. This country was once called "the land of oppurtunity"--why the hell would you preach about how great america is, and then turn people away and discriminate against them just because they dont speak english that well.
By the way, from what im told, english isnt exactly easy. Since you're so caught up in them knowing english...why dont you start a program to help those people learn english more efficiently, so you can order your Big Mac in peace, eh? Like i said, activism. Stop bitching and do something about it.

boydme

08-11-2003, 04:36 AM

They have more than an "equal opportunity" they have the advantage.
I find a hell of a lot of faults in this statement. First of all, when illegal immigrants come here, they usually dont have any money. Free health care until they get on their feet. Some people may abuse that priviledge; maybe they should make a law: 'you cant get free health care unless you try to find a job'...?

Second, off of the subject of financial status, how do these people have the advantage? They are constantly badgered by people like you who tell them 'to go fucking learn english b/c you're too lazy.' Consider all the facts before you say they have it better, because they dont. Some of those people may have come from countries where EVERYONE is poor. Where NOBODY has oppurtunity. Put the shoe on the other foot, how would you feel??? just a thought.

boydme

08-11-2003, 04:39 AM

Well down here, we have parkland hospital, which is free to everyone. So thats where all the illegals go. And they cost our state 3 BILLION dollars a year.
and one other thing on this subject. Its free to everyone. There inlies another fault in the statement by Doorknob. That hospital is free to everyone--equal oppurtunity. If you think its unfair-why dont you try to petition against it...see what happens...

Kenny

08-11-2003, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by boydme
Oh boo-fucking-hoo. a tiny little percentage of your income is added to the tiny little percentage of others' incomes, and it all adds up to 3 billion dollars a year. if it bothers you that much, go to the fucking highest court in your state and write a petition, I'm sure the supreme court would love to hear it...
ok, yeah, its unfair that illegal immigrants dont pay taxes, but what are you gonna do about it? its called activism buddy--i cant stand it when all people do is bitch and never do anything.

This has nothing to do with the Supreme Court at all, buddy. Its a congressional issue.
The State of Texas can do nothing about the border issue. We've (government classes/group of poli-sci kids) talked to our local congresswoman and written several emails/letters to different local congresspeople, state and national. What they told me was (without all the profanity though :)): The Mexican border issue is a federal deal, and the feds are so fucking afraid of offending the pussy ass Mexican government that they refuse to have some sort of military patrol on the border to prevent illegals from coming in, or to start a work visa program so that immigrants could at least get registered for taxes and at least have some sort of record with the USA. (run on, wahoo!) The state's hands are tied. No amount of activism can do anything if the national government won't budge on the issue. Every year there are bills sent to congress that get struck down asking for assistance with the money the state loses because of illegal aliens, because, the 3 billion dollars the state loses isn't refunded, and the government won't stop the flow of illegals into the state to stop the loss of money, so the state gets double-fucked. So, don't say I haven't tried to do anything about it. There's nothing that can be done.

And I agree with boydme about the english thing. I work at Trail Dust Steakhouse, and all the kitchen staff/busboys are mexican, half of them can't speak a lick of english. English is hard as fuck to learn. There are so many rules, and so many exceptions to our rules, etc. So, english is hard to learn. English lessons are expensive/time consuming. Illegal aliens do alot of jobs that we wouldnt do...mow lawns, cook, bus tables, dig ditches, etc. And I'm all for that. But they need get registered and pay taxes like the rest of us. Which is why I'm all for the work visa program. Come here, work all you want, but do it by the rules (if they'd set this program up, that is). But, this goes back to the pols being afraid of offending the Mexican government due to the political pull that legal hispanic citizens have. Say they cut the flow of illegals off, then the families of the illegals who can vote in the US won't be down for that, so there goes lots of votes. Its a fuckin endless catch 22.

What i DO have a problem with is when Mexicans, or any other foreigners for that matter, get pissed because I can't speak THEIR language. (although i do speak a bit of spanish) They're talking to me in gibberish or whatever, and I can't understand them at all and they act like I'M the idiot because I don't know their language.

And, to clarify about Parkland. The hospital is free to people that don't have insurance/money, the people who have insurance/money have to pay for care. So its only free to really poor people.

Boydme, ever lived in texas? Come on down here, go downtown, pleasant grove, oak cliff, etc. The Mexicans here know that they can get away with just about anything here, and they will gladly tell you that. They can get 38392384783 tickets and never have to pay a single cent because they're not registered with any sort of US organization. They might have to sit in jail for a bit, but then after that they just get more and more tickets, etc. They MIGHT get deported, if the INS cared enough, but they don't. Ever see any normal, white guys braking into trucks? Not as often as you see ethnics. Call me racist, but I fuckin dare you to prove me wrong. Anyone that lives around here will say the same. My truck was broken into by mexicans, as well as 95% of the "smash and grab" type of robberies around here. Know what the cops told me when my truck got busted into? They said, "Yeah its probably the same guys we caught last week, we can't ID them because they have no ID, either Mexican or United States. We can't deport them because the INS doesn't care about two worthless Mexicans who break into people's cars." That is fucking revolting. If any of us went to Mexico, or any other country like that and broke into some shit, we'd be locked up and worse for a loooooonng time. The end.

Boydme, you are quite the debater. I like that. Don't take anything i say personally. I cuss alot because well, once I get into a groove I can't stop. Cursing is an artform to me.

Daniel

08-11-2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by boydme
Second, off of the subject of financial status, how do these people have the advantage? They are constantly badgered by people like you who tell them 'to go fucking learn english b/c you're too lazy.' Consider all the facts before you say they have it better, because they dont. Some of those people may have come from countries where EVERYONE is poor. Where NOBODY has oppurtunity. Put the shoe on the other foot, how would you feel??? just a thought.

Okay I am offended by this. Its not financial status so much as lazyness. You come here for a opportunity this is true. But you don't decide the opportunities...

But Granted it does take a while to learn english it is one of the harder languages to learn and all. But still... My great grandparents came over here from Germany before WW2. They had little or no money they worked in the day time and took night school which they payed for with their crappy jobs to learn english. They never said o its to fucking hard o well its hard to get a job. They knew it was thats why they took classes learning english so they could get a better one! If you come from one country to another its going to be different isnt it?

My Great Grandmother worked very hard on her citizenship test she Aced it! She was so proud that she was now and American citizen she framed it! Hung it up in her living room for all to see. She then knew 2 languages German and English. So now she can at the very least be a translator.

My Grandfather's Brother did the same thing and still works as a translator for the Government. Not to long ago he drove by a construction crew working on the highway. The hispanics were flying a Mexican flag. He found this highly disrespectful. Seeing as were in America! Not Mexico... Also since they are working on a TEXAS state highway. He wrote to the State about this... He said he found that highly disrespectful of them to be flying the flag of another nation. Being how they all are in this one working and making a living here. He also wrote how he was offended by the English and Spanish copies of all government documents. Such as those at the DPS. He said if thats the case he would like his in German also would like any correspondence to his letter in German seeing how if he could use which ever language he liked to use he would pick that one.

No offense but the Alamo and Fort Defiance is where Santa Anna came and killed Texans for not being good Mexicans. They were of little or no strategic importance either he did it just to prove a point. Yet after weathering all his attacks and all of this...

Texas Under Spain. 1519-1685
Texas Under France. 1685-1690
Texas Under Spain. 1690-1821
Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836
Texas as a Republic. 1836-1845
Texas in the US. 1845-1861
Texas in the Confederacy. 1861-1865
Texas in the US. 1865-Present

I think anyone who comes here can learn English. Now Im not saying they can never speak Spanish, German, French, or whatever. Im just saying they need to learn the national language of the country they are in.

The is true of anywhere you go. Any nation in the world if you live there or hell go there. They want you to speak their language to them. Thats all Im asking for.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo. a tiny little percentage of your income is added to the tiny little percentage of others' incomes, and it all adds up to 3 billion dollars a year. if it bothers you that much, go to the fucking highest court in your state and write a petition, I'm sure the supreme court would love to hear it...

Furthermore.... This Summer many community colleges didn't have summer semesters. Because they couldn't afford them because of the states not giving them enough money/cutting back on funding.

My mom pays taxes too but I have to wait longer to take a college class because some illegal alien hurt himself on the way coming here? See theres a flaw...

And ya we could take it to the supreme court but we be called bigots and racists. Im fine with that... But people are more willing to put the rights/ideas of a minority over those of the majority. Because I mean they are the majority they have rights and get their way most of the time. Why cant the minority get somethings they want! It's just like saying that there should be a flat tax on everyone the rich and poor. But the rich have so much money the poor have so little. Shouldn't the people with money have to pay the most?

Kenny

08-11-2003, 08:24 PM

come on boydme, respond. I didn't type that for just myself. :) i want your input.

boydme

08-11-2003, 08:34 PM

damn, responded to heretic but my computer is stupid. oh well. here goes on kenny:

Originally posted by kenny
The Mexican border issue is a federal deal, and the feds are so fucking afraid of offending the pussy ass Mexican government that they refuse to have some sort of military patrol on the border to prevent illegals from coming in, or to start a work visa program so that immigrants could at least get registered for taxes and at least have some sort of record with the USA. (run on, wahoo!) The state's hands are tied. No amount of activism can do anything if the national government won't budge on the issue.
maybe the federal gov't is considering some other issues before this one. I'm not at all informed on the refunding issuse of your state. I live in the midwest in the suburbs, thanks.

What i DO have a problem with is when Mexicans, or any other foreigners for that matter, get pissed because I can't speak THEIR language. (although i do speak a bit of spanish)
yeah, that is shitty. i agree. but im not about to get all worked up about it. its just one of those things in life, i guess.

They can get 38392384783 tickets and never have to pay a single cent because they're not registered with any sort of US organization. They might have to sit in jail for a bit, but then after that they just get more and more tickets, etc. They MIGHT get deported, if the INS cared enough, but they don't. Ever see any normal, white guys braking into trucks?
props to them, they learned how to beat the system before you and i did.

If any of us went to Mexico, or any other country like that and broke into some shit, we'd be locked up and worse for a loooooonng time. The end.
At least the Mexican government cares about their people...
and no, i have never been to texas, so i wouldnt know about all the shit that goes down there. sorry. my only information about this topic is what ive read here. that's why i cant really say much about it. but good points.

like i said, my computer fucked up, so im going to respond as best i can to heretic:

Originally posted by heretic
They had little or no money they worked in the day time and took night school which they payed for with their crappy jobs to learn english. They never said o its to fucking hard o well its hard to get a job.
good for them, then.

He said he found that highly disrespectful of them to be flying the flag of another nation
do I smell ethnocentrism?

If you went to Britain for, let's say, a few months. Would you carelessly wear your "God Bless America" tee-shirts? Probably, these people probably dont know they're offending anyone, so just shut up and deal with it.

But people are more willing to put the rights/ideas of a minority over those of the majority. Because I mean they are the majority they have rights and get their way most of the time. Why cant the minority get somethings they want
you confused me again, clarify a little bit.

Shouldn't the people with money have to pay the most?
yes, but ive heard it doesnt work, for some reason.

Kenny

08-11-2003, 08:49 PM

nice. :)

boydme

08-11-2003, 08:57 PM

*bows* thank you much.

Nyeh

08-11-2003, 11:54 PM

also daniel, english is a germanic language, so going from german to english would be a bit easier than a romance language to english :D

boydme

08-12-2003, 12:00 AM

well said. very well said indeed.

Daniel

08-12-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by boydme
like i said, my computer fucked up, so im going to respond as best i can to heretic:

good for them, then.

Im glad you approve.

do I smell ethnocentrism?

If you went to Britain for, let's say, a few months. Would you carelessly wear your "God Bless America" tee-shirts? Probably, these people probably dont know they're offending anyone, so just shut up and deal with it.

No you don't... Because I don't think white man superior to all other races.

I would only wear a shirt like that if World Cup or the Olympics was going on. Thus showing my pride and patriotism. I mean we didn't setup a flag at my grandmas even though we are working on her house. So just because they dont know they are being offensive means I should just let it go? They should be shown why its offensive.

you confused me again, clarify a little bit.

People always empathize with the minority. They are more willing to let them have there way most of the time. Even when logically and Im not saying its the case here... But even when its not logical.

yes, but ive heard it doesnt work, for some reason.

That is what I was saying!

also daniel, english is a germanic language, so going from german to english would be a bit easier than a romance language to english

Lol, Okay. I think German is more like Klingon though.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 01:55 AM

omgosh i have a lot to say....

first off.. i agree with heretic.. if the mexicans wanna come to the US for oppurtunity and money.. then why aren't they legal? they should come here prepared to work their asses off.. and if they have the self dicipline to do that.. whats wrong with paying taxes.. and even if they made very little.. they don't have to pay income tax if they make under $2500 a year...

there are several teenagers that pay for college, cars, insurance, gas, and all the other stuff that goes on when they start college.. (lets say their parents don't help them out at all.. which is more common than you think).. so why can't the mexicans do it too? and they're not even paying for college!!! which is really expensive!

also.. there are several professions that require little or no degree at all.. fire fighters, police officers, postal workers.. TONS OF STUFF! and police officers make damn good money and mexicans would be good too.. because then other mexicans can't pull the race card on them AND they speak spainish so they don't need a translator...

as for the free medical stuff.. how many people go to the hospital all the time? it is rare and far between that i ever go to the hospital or the doctor... so its not like they're going every week..

BUT if they were honest and were truly trying to make a better life for themselves and their family here in the "land of oppurtunity" they shouldn't and wouldn't have to sneak around.. some of them are just lazy and know that mexico is crap...

boydme.. mexico doesn't give a shit about their citizens.. really they don't.. its a nasty place down there.. NASTY NASTY! they barely have a plumbing system.. and its still a 3rd world country in some parts.. so how can you even sit there and say that they care when soo many mexicans are fleeing to the US and with the poverty and all the other problems goin on down there....

hmm i think thats all.. i didn't really read everything.. just kinda skimmed through it

boydme

08-12-2003, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by pimptress
mexico doesn't give a shit about their citizens.. really they don't.. its a nasty place down there.. NASTY NASTY! they barely have a plumbing system.. and its still a 3rd world country in some parts.. so how can you even sit there and say that they care when soo many mexicans are fleeing to the US and with the poverty and all the other problems goin on down there....
I was more or less trying to make a point about our government. Sorry that was unclear. I really don't have a massive stance on this issue, as I do not know a lot about it. I live in the fucking suburbs in illinois.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 02:01 AM

haha yeah. our government cares they just have a lot of issues on hand...

sometimes though they forget whats important...

and sometimes we forget that we're not the only state in the US

Daniel

08-12-2003, 02:03 AM

Details details... Anyway like I said good post Steph. It makes me want to sex you.

DoorKnob

08-12-2003, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by boydme
Have you considered an alternative? What about the hispanic and other immigrants that come here with no money whatsoever...? They dont have the money to pay to learn to speak english.

But wait a second, public education is free... therefore you wouldn't need money to learn to speak english. And for the adults that can't speak english just buy one of those books at the bookstore with the little tapes in it that teaches you how to speak other languages. Those can't be more than 5 bucks at the store.

Originally posted by boydme
I find a hell of a lot of faults in this statement. First of all, when illegal immigrants come here, they usually dont have any money. Free health care until they get on their feet. Some people may abuse that priviledge; maybe they should make a law: 'you cant get free health care unless you try to find a job'...?

You also seem to forget some people go to the free health care center when they have a common cold. They don't buy medicine, or pay taxes, so once again they leech from the rest of society.

Originally posted by boydme
Second, off of the subject of financial status, how do these people have the advantage? They are constantly badgered by people like you who tell them 'to go fucking learn english b/c you're too lazy.' Consider all the facts before you say they have it better, because they dont. Some of those people may have come from countries where EVERYONE is poor. Where NOBODY has oppurtunity. Put the shoe on the other foot, how would you feel??? just a thought.

It seems you contradict yourself here... you say that they have it worse in America due to people like myself who badger them daily, but then again you say they have it better than living in their home country. Make up your mind... As I've said before they do have it better HERE in America rather than in their home country because we allow them to get free medicare, free schooling, and even free shelter.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 02:34 AM

.. we let them have free shelter???

SINCE WHEN?

ooooh you mean the projects? haha i thought you meant something actually worth while.. if they were really bustin their butt to get some where.. they would not be in the projects..

DoorKnob

08-12-2003, 02:36 AM

there are things such as homeless shelters...

pimptress

08-12-2003, 02:37 AM

pfft those are dumb too.. ever been to one? i have! i slept there too..

if the aliens have kids.. they can't leave them there.. everybody has to leave the shelter during the day... and theres no way they'd be able to accomplish anything by living in a shelter.. thats for the really lazy people

Kenny

08-12-2003, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by pimptress
pfft those are dumb too.. ever been to one? i have! i slept there too..

if the aliens have kids.. they can't leave them there.. everybody has to leave the shelter during the day... and theres no way they'd be able to accomplish anything by living in a shelter.. thats for the really lazy people

All they have to do is have a kid here... a kid born to an illegal in the USA becomes a citizen automatically.

Nyeh

08-12-2003, 10:20 AM

and its still a 3rd world country in some parts..
no it is a third world country everywhere, that is why its called a third world country

and dont police and firefighters and such at least need a few college hours
EDIT!!!:

also wouldnt you think a job like that would actually check their eligibilty to work in the country and being illegal they can only work the shit jobs because thats what they get away with

pimptress

08-12-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Nyeh
no it is a third world country everywhere, that is why its called a third world country

well i wasn't for sure if it was a third world country or not. haha chill hun

Originally posted by Nyeh
and dont police and firefighters and such at least need a few college hours
EDIT!!!:

actually no they don't.. they get paid more if they do but a degree is not required...

Originally posted by Nyeh
also wouldnt you think a job like that would actually check their eligibilty to work in the country and being illegal they can only work the shit jobs because thats what they get away with

well if they were legal then it wouldn't be such a big deal.. they could make a lot more money doin stuff like fire fighters and police officers than they would living pay check to pay check doing some dead end job with no retirement.. seriously.. if they were just legal and became a police officer or a fire fighter... then paying taxes would not be that big of a deal

Nyeh

08-12-2003, 10:35 AM

well if they were legal then it wouldn't be such a big deal.. they could make a lot more money doin stuff like fire fighters and police officers than they would living pay check to pay check doing some dead end job with no retirement.. seriously.. if they were just legal and became a police officer or a fire fighter... then paying taxes would not be that big of a deal
we arent talking about legal immigrants...if they were legal half this shit wouldnt apply

pimptress

08-12-2003, 10:37 AM

i know that.. but i was just proving that being illegal is dumb because they could make so much more money being legal and that really they're here to leech off of the system and be lazy.. not to make a better life for themselves...

we've gotten a bit off topic here.. we're supposed to be talkin about medical aid

Nyeh

08-12-2003, 10:40 AM

well basically what happened is you made a horribly structured post and never stated your point which made it look like you said that you want illegals to have guns and batons, so in order to prove your point, you have to make one in the first place...

you lose, get off my planet

pimptress

08-12-2003, 10:45 AM

:( and i thought you loved me...

haha i don't care.. i'm not into politics.. i was just jumpin in to argue...

asnchic

08-12-2003, 10:46 AM

I,personally, would like to see free health care for EVERYONE. think about the people who can't help but be poor. They were born into poor families, could not get a good enough college education, so they end up in a minimum wage job. They then get married, have kids, and the cycle begins again. What happens when they get in a bad car accident? What happens if one of the kids develops leukemia? They HAVE to go to the hospital. They then are stuck with those rocket-high bills for the rest of their lives, and their kids' lives. Is that fair? i personally, dont think it is. My mom only brings in about $50,000 a year for three of us. My brother works for himself now. My mom gets a little over $800 a month until im 18 (thanks to the republicans, it used to be 21) from social security. Let's say something happens to her. She has to get surgery. And I'd be in college. That would suck ass. Anybody who gets hit with huge med bills are stuck with them for a while, unless you're very well off. Thats why I think there should be free health care. So the taxes will go up...but free health care. In germany, they have free health care and free education...think about how much better off our country would be.

Okay...I don't understand why people feel pity for those who are poor, who can't get good enough college education, and who end up with a minimum wage job...Anyone, you or I, could go out there and make a future for ourselves, it all depends on how hard you're willing to work for it. Here the majority of you folks are hating on Mexicans or illegal aliens because they get things for free when in the end, you're pitying your American counterparts...is it all a matter of citizenship? Okay, so if something goes on in other countries where they have no control over it...are you going to be the same way?

I say fuck all that. ALL PEOPLE that are homeless, who didn't get a good enough college education, and have minimum wage jobs somewhat can control the situations that surround them. Work your ass off, get some money, work two jobs if you have to. I know a teacher that works three jobs and is still going to school for her Ph. D for more money. IT'S all about how hard you're willing to work. "Free" aid should only be allowed for those who seriously can't control the environment around them...I.e. kids. Otherwise, focus more time and money on those who are TRYING to work hard and we'll see something come off of all these benefits.

Announcements were like 10 minutes long, and annoying as hell. Anyway, that was my rant.

I was in Spanish 4 and the reason that was done was to help us with Spanish Proficiency. We had to translate it and our teacher thought it was good that if we did it in front of the school, then it wouldn't be so bad in front of a recorder. Her sense of humor I guess.

i know that.. but i was just proving that being illegal is dumb because they could make so much more money being legal and that really they're here to leech off of the system and be lazy.. not to make a better life for themselves...

Um...some people can't exactly walk up to a counter and say...hey, I'm illegal...Can I be a citizen?

And I don't think it's really about being lazy as opposed to making a better life for themselves. Mexico's social ladder consists of one huge ass middle class...so there's not much "better life" left. Whereas, here, you can work however hard you want and get money. Money makes the world go around, people in other countries don't have the luxury of saying "I want a job that I enjoy" like we do. I've seen and met many hispanics that come here for their kids to have the ability to go to a better college. I don't know about you...maybe it's not a better life for themselves...maybe it's about making a better life for their kids.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by asnchic
Um...some people can't exactly walk up to a counter and say...hey, I'm illegal...Can I be a citizen?

And I don't think it's really about being lazy as opposed to making a better life for themselves. Mexico's social ladder consists of one huge ass middle class...so there's not much "better life" left. Whereas, here, you can work however hard you want and get money. Money makes the world go around, people in other countries don't have the luxury of saying "I want a job that I enjoy" like we do. I've seen and met many hispanics that come here for their kids to have the ability to go to a better college. I don't know about you...maybe it's not a better life for themselves...maybe it's about making a better life for their kids.

they shouldn't be illegal in the first place.. its not that hard to become a citizen.. you barely even have to speak english.. and even if they were making a better life for their kids.. why is it sooo hard to become a citizen.. if you're gunna live here.. and you wanna make a good life for your kids.. why not be a good role model and do everything other americans do? one of my friend's parents came here so that he could go to better schools and have a better life than what they started out with.. and they're doing just fine...

but just because they're here to make a better life for their kids.. doesn't make being illegal alright..

but i agree with you on the poor people thing.. i don't have any pity for them either..

boydme

08-12-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
Okay...I don't understand why people feel pity for those who are poor, who can't get good enough college education, and who end up with a minimum wage job...
I see some faults in this post. You're forgetting about the children born into poor families. Sure, maybe they can afford public education until graduation, but what about college? There's no way a family in extreme poverty could pay for a college education--even a community college, unless the kid gets a full ride scholarship, and how often does that happen? Unless the child is extremely smart (like nyeh here, right?) or an awesome quarter back, that kid more than likely isnt going to go to college. How can you not feel pity for a kid like that? Why should they be punished for their parents lack of motivation? Or maybe their parents were born into a poor family...etc...dont just blame poverty on laziness, there are other situations.
For me, it doesnt matter if a homeless guy is lazy or not. I see them on the street, and i feel terrible. I dont know their life story, so therefore i cannot judge what their situation is. I guess it just depends on your personality. Do you feel sorry for kids born into third world countries? People can't help what country they're born in...just like they cant help what family they're born into...its the same thing, only its harder to see here because there is so much success in america.

Originally posted by pimptress
its not that hard to become a citizen.. you barely even have to speak english.. and even if they were making a better life for their kids.. why is it sooo hard to become a citizen..
Ive talked to people at my work about becoming a citizen...its not exactly easy. It took this one lady from India five years to become a citizen. And this other lady from Colombia is still working towards becoming a citizen.

Originally posted by Nyeh
well basically what happened is you made a horribly structured post and never stated your point which made it look like you said that you want illegals to have guns and batons, so in order to prove your point, you have to make one in the first place...

you lose, get off my planet
classic. just classic. major props.

boydme

08-12-2003, 04:31 PM

I say fuck all that. ALL PEOPLE that are homeless, who didn't get a good enough college education, and have minimum wage jobs somewhat can control the situations that surround them. Work your ass off, get some money, work two jobs if you have to. I know a teacher that works three jobs and is still going to school for her Ph. D for more money. IT'S all about how hard you're willing to work. "Free" aid should only be allowed for those who seriously can't control the environment around them...I.e. kids. Otherwise, focus more time and money on those who are TRYING to work hard and we'll see something come off of all these benefits.
I say, fuck what you're saying and put yourself in their shoes for one day. Seriously, think about how hard it would be. Then you can bitch.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by boydme
I see some faults in this post. You're forgetting about the children born into poor families. Sure, maybe they can afford public education until graduation, but what about college? There's no way a family in extreme poverty could pay for a college education--even a community college, unless the kid gets a full ride scholarship, and how often does that happen? Unless the child is extremely smart (like nyeh here, right?) or an awesome quarter back, that kid more than likely isnt going to go to college. How can you not feel pity for a kid like that? Why should they be punished for their parents lack of motivation? Or maybe their parents were born into a poor family...etc...dont just blame poverty on laziness, there are other situations.
For me, it doesnt matter if a homeless guy is lazy or not. I see them on the street, and i feel terrible. I dont know their life story, so therefore i cannot judge what their situation is. I guess it just depends on your personality. Do you feel sorry for kids born into third world countries? People can't help what country they're born in...just like they cant help what family they're born into...its the same thing, only its harder to see here because there is so much success in america.

its not like the teenagers can't work.. my dad was born into a poor family... he had 12 other brothers and sisters and his mom didnt work because she had to raise all of the kids.. by the time he was 12 he became financially independant.. he had to pay rent and get a job.. and look at where he is now.. my dad worked his way to the top... so no.. i have no pity for those who are poor.. they can get a job.. i have 2.. so its not like its impossible to get one.. you can be born into poverty yes.. and as a child yes you are screwed... but once you get old enough to work.. you can.. babysitting, mowing lawns, and things like that rake in more cash than you think.. so if they are willing to work hard.. they can get into college and get a good job.. or just become a firefighter, police officer, trashman, any service job that is paid by the city does not usuallly require a degree.. and i'm serious.. and they all pay well and have good job stability and retirement..

so ya i do feel pity for the kids.. but when its an adult.. nope.. i have no pity what so ever.. both of my parents worked their way to get where they are today.. and neither one of them got aid from their parents.. so yeah.. nope no pity for the adults.. but as for the kids..yeah.. but when i said that i had no pity for them.. i was talking about the adults i should've been more specific and thats my fault

people can't help what country they're born into.. but they can still make their life better when they have the chance..

boydme

08-12-2003, 05:00 PM

so ya i do feel pity for the kids.. but when its an adult.. nope.. i have no pity what so ever.. both of my parents worked their way to get where they are today.. and neither one of them got aid from their parents.. so yeah.. nope no pity for the adults.. but as for the kids..yeah.. but when i said that i had no pity for them.. i was talking about the adults
Don't you understand that sometimes people just CAN'T get jobs? I dont think you can judge someone's life until you learn about it. Good for your parents...they worked hard with a little luck...some people are just unlucky.

boydme

08-12-2003, 05:01 PM

I think i partly feel sorry for them because I couldnt imagine being in their shoes. Live a day in their life, then you can bitch.

pimptress

08-12-2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by boydme
Don't you understand that sometimes people just CAN'T get jobs? I dont think you can judge someone's life until you learn about it. Good for your parents...they worked hard with a little luck...some people are just unlucky.

thats bull crap.. it really is.. theres no way you just CAN'T get a job.. theres always somebody hiring and there is no such thing as people that are "just unlucky" thats a cop out.. and a poor one at that.. working hard and having heart will get you any where in life.. there is no "luck" when it comes to getting a job.. there just isn't.. its not impossible...

and i'm not bitching.. theres nothing to bitch about.. i don't need to live a day in their life to be able to tell you that if they had good work ethic that they could make it... i don't have to do that.. i've seen people work and work and go to school and still make it even though they were born into a poor family.. being born into a poor family doesn't mean anything to me when you're 18, jobless, and a couch potato... by the time you're 15 you can get a job at a grocery store... if they really wanted to get out of that situation.. they can.. people do it... all the time...

but i'm not bitching.. haha you must have your people mixed up.. amber's the one that bitches

asnchic

08-12-2003, 05:48 PM

they shouldn't be illegal in the first place.. its not that hard to become a citizen.. you barely even have to speak english.. and even if they were making a better life for their kids.. why is it sooo hard to become a citizen.. if you're gunna live here.. and you wanna make a good life for your kids.. why not be a good role model and do everything other americans do?

Are you sure it's that easy to come to the United States? There's all sorts of conditions that apply, whether you have family members here, whether they live in good standing, whether you have someone who wants you here due to your talents or achievements, etc. It's not really as easy as you think, especially for those who work all hours of the day just for their kids to get to school. As you know, kids have to pay for school and then living expenses, house etc etc. it stacks up. So for these people, they want something better for their kids. And if it's their expense to be illegal aliens...then I guess they're willing to risk it.

I'm not saying it's right but I can understand where they're coming from.

And it's hard to be a citizen because

1) terrorist possibilities and

2) you can't get a viable background check on a lot of these people.

I see some faults in this post. You're forgetting about the children born into poor families. Sure, maybe they can afford public education until graduation, but what about college? There's no way a family in extreme poverty could pay for a college education--even a community college, unless the kid gets a full ride scholarship, and how often does that happen? Unless the child is extremely smart (like nyeh here, right?) or an awesome quarter back, that kid more than likely isnt going to go to college. How can you not feel pity for a kid like that? Why should they be punished for their parents lack of motivation? Or maybe their parents were born into a poor family...etc...dont just blame poverty on laziness, there are other situations.

Hah, hah, oh yes, there is. Work your ass off, which is exactly what I said. If a kid from Brazil can come to the United States, work as a house cleaning maid, and graduate as valedictorian of their class and get a full paid scholarship to an Ivey League University, I'm sure an American born citizen can do it just as well.

And remember, it's not necessarily always about being smart. It's about hard work ethic, which gets you a lot farther then just being smart. No one wants to employ a person who scored a 1600 on his SAT but sits around and spews a bunch of crap all day long.

And why waste time pitying people that give up? Take out loans if you have to, even if you have to end up paying them back, at least you're ensured that you have a source of steady money with that degree.

See, I think we waste too much time feeling sorry for ourselves or for others. It's about time we shut up and get to work. That's how the Japanese are doing so well business wise. They don't obsess about what's happened to them, they keep going and discipline themselves.

For me, it doesnt matter if a homeless guy is lazy or not. I see them on the street, and i feel terrible. I dont know their life story, so therefore i cannot judge what their situation is. I guess it just depends on your personality. Do you feel sorry for kids born into third world countries? People can't help what country they're born in...just like they cant help what family they're born into...its the same thing, only its harder to see here because there is so much success in america.

I don't care. If it's a homeless kid, that's a different story but an adult can go out there and get a job IF it's his prerogative.

And yes, I do feel sorry for kids born into third world countries, it's not fair for them either. But if you're in that situation to begin with, live your life in such a way to spark change. We are the masters of our own fate, it's about time we put our hands on the wheel. Just now people in South Africa are standing up against female genital mutilation. At one point these women were beaten to death. It's a small start but hey, at least you're trying right?

Success? Success in America? It's hard work, that's what success is. There are kids in Nigeria that don't get the same opportunities as us. I know that. But if they're willing to work hard in school, if they're willing to go up and beyond what is asked of them...then what else can they do with their life? There's only one way you can make a person your slave and that's if you get them to believe that they are inferior to you.

I say, fuck what you're saying and put yourself in their shoes for one day. Seriously, think about how hard it would be. Then you can bitch.

You know what, I probably couldn't be able to. I couldn't imagine myself not working hard for what I want out of life. Looks like I was just raised that way...ho hum, I guess it's because my parents started out that way too.

And don't presume to tell me that I don't know how hard it was for my parents. I see it everyday.

And if you're on such a crusade for the homeless, shouldn't you be out...donating or something?

Get it through your head, the only people who can help the homeless are themselves. So don't waste time dabbling in issues that you can't control.

Don't you understand that sometimes people just CAN'T get jobs? I dont think you can judge someone's life until you learn about it. Good for your parents...they worked hard with a little luck...some people are just unlucky.

I don't think luck exists in this kind of world we've made. That's why you work hard and not waste time believing in "luck".

Daniel

08-12-2003, 06:01 PM

I would post on this but you women with the talking... I dont want to read all that. So Steph make me proud... Hold down the fort.

boydme

08-12-2003, 07:23 PM

And if you're on such a crusade for the homeless, shouldn't you be out...donating or something?
what makes you think that I'm not?? good judgement call.
This arguement is getting useless. We obviously don't agree, so let's agree to disagree.

graeme

08-12-2003, 07:54 PM

the truth is.... countrys with free medical care are in the shittiest economic times EVER...

the fact is.. if we take government out of buying medical services... the price to treat will GO WAY DOWN

wow i love economics... the science of SMART people

boydme

08-12-2003, 07:57 PM

wow i love economics... the science of SMART people
ouch, you hurt my feelings (sarcasm). I'd rather be open-minded and accepting of all people than totally understand economics, thank you very much.

and um, excuse me...SMART PERSON! OVER HERE!! Yeah, you spelled "countrys" wrong. nice.

graeme

08-12-2003, 08:07 PM

i didnt misspell it i didnt use correct punctuation

economics.. is the RIGHT way.. being open minded.. means you accept the socialist ways of other ideas

Free market is the ONLY way to go

so Fuck off you damn yankee

boydme

08-12-2003, 08:09 PM

i didnt misspell it i didnt use correct punctuation
um..yes you did. country plural is countries. if you were using it as a singular possessive it would've been the incorrect punctuation. see, you dont have to be into economics to be smart.

so Fuck off you damn yankee
whats with the name-calling? its not like it actually hurts my feelings. it's completely unnecessary, and frankly, it just makes you look bad.

asnchic

08-12-2003, 08:38 PM

Ha, ha, ha...I love this. :D

what makes you think that I'm not?? good judgement call.

I'm human, I judge. Everyone does it because it's human nature, it's what we DO. The matter of whether we voice it or not is the difference.

And I was being sarcastic, but since it's all words I guess you couldn't catch my tone.

We obviously don't agree, so let's agree to disagree.

Why, this is fun. It's the beauty of arguing, you keep doing it till you win.

economics.. is the RIGHT way.. being open minded.. means you accept the socialist ways of other ideas

Graeme, I hardly would think you would have any room to speak about being "open-minded"...*refers Graeme to the *damn liberals* thread.

And in that case...aren't we all Yankees?

graeme

08-12-2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
Ha, ha, ha...I love this. :D

I'm human, I judge. Everyone does it because it's human nature, it's what we DO. The matter of whether we voice it or not is the difference.

And I was being sarcastic, but since it's all words I guess you couldn't catch my tone.

Why, this is fun. It's the beauty of arguing, you keep doing it till you win.

Graeme, I hardly would think you would have any room to speak about being "open-minded"...*refers Graeme to the *damn liberals* thread.

And in that case...aren't we all Yankees?

exactly... i never said i was open minded about Economics... i was saying that BEING open minded in that subject.. and accepting other ways to run an economy is WRONG.. and has been proven to that!

graeme

08-12-2003, 09:03 PM

and no... i am not a yankee....

you might be.. but im not...

but see you belive in government regualtion on guns... so im sure you are a DAMN YANKEE

boydme

08-12-2003, 09:11 PM

and no... i am not a yankee....

you might be.. but im not...
no i just think you're an ass.

Kenny

08-12-2003, 09:14 PM

I'd rather be a yankee than a canadian, mexican, african, iraqi, afghani, indian, or anything like that. But texan is best. :)

boydme

08-12-2003, 09:15 PM

I'd rather be a yankee than a canadian, mexican, african, iraqi, afghani, indian, or anything like that. But texan is best
i smell ethnocentrism...tsk tsk

Daniel

08-12-2003, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by boydme
i smell ethnocentrism...tsk tsk

Frankly Texans have ethocentrism. We are all okay with that as well. We were our own country once...

graeme

08-13-2003, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Heretic
Frankly Texans have ethocentrism. We are all okay with that as well. We were our own country once...

and we need to go back... YAY FOR REPUBLIC OF TEXAS!!!

we could do it... we have every major region all in one state!!!

then we could execute the runnaway faggity ass democrats .... COWARDS@!!!!

Daniel

08-13-2003, 12:14 AM

ROFL!

Kenny

08-13-2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by boydme
i smell ethnocentrism...tsk tsk

You're right. And I don't care. I love this place and I'll never leave.

boydme

08-13-2003, 12:23 AM

You're right. And I don't care. I love this place and I'll never leave.
um...you know that ethnocentrism isnt exactly a good thing right?

graeme

08-13-2003, 12:28 AM

well... im a texan, kenny is too.,... so looks like we are the best and the greatest breed of american....

Kenny

08-13-2003, 12:31 AM

hahahhaa yes.

boydme

08-13-2003, 12:31 AM

well... im a texan, kenny is too.,... so looks like we are the best and the greatest breed of american....
well, i knew that jeff joyner was a texan, and nyeh's a texan, and kenny's a texan, and they're cool. but since you're a texan, im not so sure about you being the greatest breed...

graeme

08-13-2003, 12:47 AM

well i am.... and your a damn socialist.... we both know the truth now!!

Daniel

08-13-2003, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by boydme
well, i knew that jeff joyner was a texan, and nyeh's a texan, and kenny's a texan, and they're cool. but since you're a texan, im not so sure about you being the greatest breed...

Keep the punches up... Im a Texan too! Im cool and have good points remember! I don't get a mention?

boydme

08-13-2003, 01:03 AM

well i am.... and your a damn socialist.... we both know the truth now!!
again..with the grammar. please. i thought you were smart...?

Originally posted by Heretic
Keep the punches up... Im a Texan too! Im cool and have good points remember! I don't get a mention?
Sure, but sometimes you confuse me....lol

Daniel

08-13-2003, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by boydme
Sure, but sometimes you confuse me....lol

Im given to elaboration and being long winded. Im working on my brevity.

boydme

08-13-2003, 04:07 AM

Im given to elaboration and being long winded. Im working on my brevity.
okay, whatever you say.

Kenny

08-13-2003, 04:17 AM

fuck that...novel posts rule.

boydme

08-13-2003, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Kenny
fuck that...novel posts rule.
what? baby carrots?

Daniel

08-13-2003, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by boydme
okay, whatever you say.

Yes anywho back to us Texans being given to ethnocentrism. You're from Chicago aka Chi Town you must be proud of that. Isn't it called the Second City?

If you could enlighten me please with some history of Chicago. It's a city I've always wanted to go too.

asnchic

08-13-2003, 10:21 AM

but see you belive in government regualtion on guns... so im sure you are a DAMN YANKEE

Okay, apparently I don't know what you're trying to imply by using the word "yankee". But in the good ole dictionary, a yankee means someone who lives or is a citizen in/of the United States.

You left it open to be interpreted that way. Maybe you should be damning someone else.

economics.. is the RIGHT way.. being open minded.. means you accept the socialist ways of other ideas

Next time, explain what you're trying to convey instead of using those damn ellipses.

And in any ways, being open minded does mean you accept the socialist or any other factors of an issues. However, just because you accept them doesn't mean you support them. So there is nothing wrong with being open-minded.

I accept how the communist economy is run but that doesn't mean I support it.

boydme

08-13-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
And in any ways, being open minded does mean you accept the socialist or any other factors of an issues. However, just because you accept them doesn't mean you support them. So there is nothing wrong with being open-minded.

I accept how the communist economy is run but that doesn't mean I support it.
I agree. Good points.

Daniel

08-13-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
Okay, apparently I don't know what you're trying to imply by using the word "yankee". But in the good ole dictionary, a yankee means someone who lives or is a citizen in/of the United States.

You left it open to be interpreted that way. Maybe you should be damning someone else.

Ya well... As our Canadian friend Mark pointed out. Anyone who uses yall or lives in a trailer park is deemed a Redneck. When here we have a somewhat different definition for the word right Jen?

I don't understand what the heck you're talking about on the whole open-minded thing Jen.

boydme

08-13-2003, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Heretic
Ya well... As our Canadian friend Mark pointed out. Anyone who uses yall or lives in a trailer park is deemed a Redneck. When here we have a somewhat different definition for the word right Jen?

I don't understand what the heck you're talking about on the whole open-minded thing Jen.

nice...*claps*

Daniel

08-13-2003, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by boydme
nice...*claps*

Thank you! Thank you! You're beautiful! *bows*

boydme

08-14-2003, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by Heretic
Thank you! Thank you! You're beautiful! *bows*

Yay! A compliment! *Jumps up and down*, thanks fucker.
roTfl

Daniel

08-14-2003, 02:15 AM

No problem babe.

asnchic

08-14-2003, 09:34 AM

I don't understand what the heck you're talking about on the whole open-minded thing Jen.

Here, I'll clarify for you.

Originally posted by graeme
exactly... i never said i was open minded about Economics... i was saying that BEING open minded in that subject.. and accepting other ways to run an economy is WRONG.. and has been proven to that!

He said that accepting other ways to run an economy was wrong. I was arguing that point. That being open-minded in ANY subject is NOT wrong, because being open-minded doesn't mean you automatically support it. You're just informed on the issue and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being informed about the world around you.

And don't think all socialism is bad. Japan is a Democratic Socialist and they seem to be doing pretty well. I think it's called welfare democracy but it's the same principle, relatively, as socialism.

On a second note Daniel, I never knew "Yankee" to be a disparaging term. I think all Texans here would know that "redneck" is but there's a difference. Redneck is popular whereas I have never heard anyone call anyone else "you damn yankee" (unless it was from a foreigner) until I saw it here at MMC. I guess it's one of those new insults...I don't know why anyone would use it though since the meaning is one who is a citizen of the United States and making it out to be something bad.

graeme

08-14-2003, 01:36 PM

boydme

08-14-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
On a second note Daniel, I never knew "Yankee" to be a disparaging term. I think all Texans here would know that "redneck" is but there's a difference. Redneck is popular whereas I have never heard anyone call anyone else "you damn yankee" (unless it was from a foreigner) until I saw it here at MMC. I guess it's one of those new insults...I don't know why anyone would use it though since the meaning is one who is a citizen of the United States and making it out to be something bad.
Usually, people from the south call northerners "damn yankees". My friend used to live in New Orleans, and went she visited, all of her friends called her a "damn yankee". Maybe people in Texas don't use it. But people in the southeast use it A LOT. I've heard it, and its not really a good thing.

boydme

08-14-2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by graeme
socialism is bad.. japan is NOT doing good... thier economy is shit... the only reason our economy is regaining power is because of capitalism!
i'd like you to site your source. I dont know a lot about japan, but i'd like to hear where you got that from...
by the way, asnchic is right. Just because you think socialism is bad doesnt mean you cant accept it. You can respect that there are other ways of economy, but you dont have to agree with them. I guess you and I have different views on being open-minded. Being that you're not open-minded at all, and you choose not to be. That's just great, graeme. Just great.

pimptress

08-14-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by boydme
um...you know that ethnocentrism isnt exactly a good thing right?

i think he was just having pride in where hes from.. i'm very sure that everybody has that.. and its not like its that big of a deal... as long as hes not acting on it.. its not really ethnocentrism

and yankee has been a term for years...
Originally posted by asnchic
On a second note Daniel, I never knew "Yankee" to be a disparaging term. I think all Texans here would know that "redneck" is but there's a difference. Redneck is popular whereas I have never heard anyone call anyone else "you damn yankee" (unless it was from a foreigner) until I saw it here at MMC. I guess it's one of those new insults...I don't know why anyone would use it though since the meaning is one who is a citizen of the United States and making it out to be something bad.

the dictionary meaning could say one thing.. but the connotaion could mean another.. like "bitch" the dictionary meaning is a female dog.. but say bitch now a days and you're talking about a girl or guy who is being moody or mean... a yankee is somebody who lives in the north... thats all there is to it.. i call my relatives yankees all the time.. i even call my dad that too.. its not necessarily a bad thing.. just sayin that you're from the north..

but you must admit.. there has always been a tension between the north and the south... the southerners all think that the northerners are too stuck up and into all the hi-tech stuff to enjoy the good things in life.. while the northerners think that we're stupid and slow.. so theres a misconception.. but oh well...

hmm i haven't really proved much here but oh well.. i don't know much about politics...

Daniel

08-14-2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
Here, I'll clarify for you.

He said that accepting other ways to run an economy was wrong. I was arguing that point. That being open-minded in ANY subject is NOT wrong, because being open-minded doesn't mean you automatically support it. You're just informed on the issue and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being informed about the world around you.

And don't think all socialism is bad. Japan is a Democratic Socialist and they seem to be doing pretty well. I think it's called welfare democracy but it's the same principle, relatively, as socialism.

On a second note Daniel, I never knew "Yankee" to be a disparaging term. I think all Texans here would know that "redneck" is but there's a difference. Redneck is popular whereas I have never heard anyone call anyone else "you damn yankee" (unless it was from a foreigner) until I saw it here at MMC. I guess it's one of those new insults...I don't know why anyone would use it though since the meaning is one who is a citizen of the United States and making it out to be something bad.

Originally posted by graeme
socialism is bad.. japan is NOT doing good... thier economy is shit... the only reason our economy is regaining power is because of capitalism!

Originally posted by boydme
i'd like you to site your source. I dont know a lot about japan, but i'd like to hear where you got that from...
by the way, asnchic is right. Just because you think socialism is bad doesnt mean you cant accept it. You can respect that there are other ways of economy, but you dont have to agree with them. I guess you and I have different views on being open-minded. Being that you're not open-minded at all, and you choose not to be. That's just great, graeme. Just great.

*READS*

Jen, I understand Im open-minded till I make up my mind something sucks. I call it the socratic method... Examine what you do make sure you can't do it any better. Then if you can do so. If you can't stick with the system you got.

Socialism sucks... So does welfare. By the way I know its one of my pet peeves but we are a Republic not a Democracy. Thats something the Democrats snuck in there...

Also Jen... Yankee became a disparaging term in the Civil War. The Northerns were called Yankees and the Southerns were Rebels. Since we were rebeling... Thats where Boydme gets the whole Damn Yankee thing.

By the way Stephanie hit it on the head. I mean just listen to Jay Leno, David Letterman, Bill Mahar, Robin Williams, or any other Comedian that is from the North. They always throw in the slow or stupid joke about the south or some death penality joke about Texas.

pimptress

08-14-2003, 09:53 PM

*agrees with daniel*

yay for me being right!

so umm.. does that mean that this thread is done or am i supposed to wait for a rebuttle

Kenny

08-14-2003, 10:38 PM

BACK ON TOPIC YOU FUCKS.

Daniel

08-14-2003, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Kenny
BACK ON TOPIC YOU FUCKS.

Free Aid to Illegal Aliens is stupid... Like a welfare democracy. Okay Im done.

asnchic

08-14-2003, 11:19 PM

socialism is bad.. japan is NOT doing good... thier economy is shit... the only reason our economy is regaining power is because of capitalism!

True enough, but that doesn't mean Socialism is a total fall through. Compared with other countries, it's not that DAMN bad so quit making it out to be like it's the end all of everything. Note that it's one of the strongest in the world, and only the U.S. has a higher GNP.

Japanese Economy (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e644.html)

i'd like you to site your source. I dont know a lot about japan, but i'd like to hear where you got that from...

Where Japan's Economy Stands (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3024860.stm)

Good enough, it's relevant.

the dictionary meaning could say one thing.. but the connotaion could mean another.. like "bitch" the dictionary meaning is a female dog.. but say bitch now a days and you're talking about a girl or guy who is being moody or mean... a yankee is somebody who lives in the north... thats all there is to it.. i call my relatives yankees all the time.. i even call my dad that too.. its not necessarily a bad thing.. just sayin that you're from the north..

Yeah, but what other meanings does bitch have? I mean, c'mon, it's a female dog, that's all it is. A Yankee is also a U.S. Citizen, what American would insult another with a word that has a SECOND meaning of a U.S. Citizen? And if you look it up on an online dictionary, bitch even has a different definition of "unpleasant" etc. etc. I haven't seen one come up with Yankee.

Jen, I understand Im open-minded till I make up my mind something sucks. I call it the socratic method... Examine what you do make sure you can't do it any better. Then if you can do so. If you can't stick with the system you got.

Yeah, everyone to a degree HAS to be close-minded to maintain their beliefs, that's cool. But there's a difference. I don't agree with religion and I acknowledge it's existence. That doesn't stop me from learning about it though DESPITE the fact that I don't believe in it.

What do people know? They'll always think their way is better then someone elses. Pros and cons cancel each other out.

Also Jen... Yankee became a disparaging term in the Civil War. The Northerns were called Yankees and the Southerns were Rebels. Since we were rebeling... Thats where Boydme gets the whole Damn Yankee thing.

I knew that, but I thought the term was extinct since no one had ever insulted me with that nor have I seen anyone else insulted with that term. Plus, it's other meaning, which should be a good thing.

And btw...if there weren't any aid to any illegal aliens in the history of this country...I wonder where we would be today.

Daniel

08-14-2003, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by asnchic
True enough, but that doesn't mean Socialism is a total fall through. Compared with other countries, it's not that DAMN bad so quit making it out to be like it's the end all of everything. Note that it's one of the strongest in the world, and only the U.S. has a higher GNP.

Japanese Economy (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e644.html)

Where Japan's Economy Stands (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3024860.stm)

Good enough, it's relevant.

Ya you do realize thats because we rebuilt them after WW2. It's also why Germany and France don't completely suck.

Yeah, but what other meanings does bitch have? I mean, c'mon, it's a female dog, that's all it is. A Yankee is also a U.S. Citizen, what American would insult another with a word that has a SECOND meaning of a U.S. Citizen? And if you look it up on an online dictionary, bitch even has a different definition of "unpleasant" etc. etc. I haven't seen one come up with Yankee.

Yan·kee

A native or inhabitant of New England.
A native or inhabitant of a northern U.S. state, especially a Union soldier during the Civil War.
A native or inhabitant of the United States.

Definition brought to you by Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/).

Yeah, everyone to a degree HAS to be close-minded to maintain their beliefs, that's cool. But there's a difference. I don't agree with religion and I acknowledge it's existence. That doesn't stop me from learning about it though DESPITE the fact that I don't believe in it.

What do people know? They'll always think their way is better then someone elses. Pros and cons cancel each other out.

I never denied Socialism existed. I merely said it sucked. I know a lot. I know the early Americans the Pilgrims tryed Socialism they almost starved to death. So theres one fact... If you want elaboration I would gladly get my government book and quote from it.

I knew that, but I thought the term was extinct since no one had ever insulted me with that nor have I seen anyone else insulted with that term. Plus, it's other meaning, which should be a good thing.

And btw...if there weren't any aid to any illegal aliens in the history of this country...I wonder where we would be today.

A british gentleman insulted my Opa (German for Grandfather) by calling him a Yankee. He explained to the man how he was a Southerner was born and raised in Thorndale, Texas. Thus he was most definitely not a Yankee.

Probably better off. Sure some of it has been good but this current system sucks quite frankly. Even FDR didn't mean for it to go on for this long.

Kenny

08-14-2003, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by asnchic

And btw...if there weren't any aid to any illegal aliens in the history of this country...I wonder where we would be today.

Tell me what you mean by this, immediately.

edit: fuck it, you didn't reply quick enough...here goes...

I don't know where you're going with this point, but I hope its not the whole "WELL THIS COUNTRY WAS STARTED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS BLAH BLAH BLAH WHERE WOULD WE BE IF THEY HADN'T RECEIVED AID?"

(if that was what you meant by your previous statement, then i have this to say to you.)

This country may have been started because of aliens leaving a place they hated (the UK) and going to a new place and making a new life for themselves. BUT they worked their fucking asses off, fought a huge war for their freedom and gained their independence on their own. THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE FREE HANDOUTS LIKE THESE WORTHLESS ASS ILLEGALS DO! THEY DIDN'T GET FREE FOOD, EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE! THEY WORKED FOR EVERYTHING THEY GOT! And they also didn't send the money the made back to their home country...

The biggest influx of money to Mexico comes from where??? Take a wild guess?

Labor money that the illegals make (in most cases, tax free i might add :)) and send back to their families. Which may be sweet and all, but fuck it, pay some god damn taxes and come to this country legally, its not that hard. The free welfare to illegals needs to stop, NOW. End of story. No more of this Japanese Economy crap, that has nothing to do with this. Illegal aliens cost taxpayers so much fucking money its outrageous, and they don't have to pay a fucking dime in taxes. I WIN.

boydme

08-14-2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Heretic
Free Aid to Illegal Aliens is stupid... Like a welfare democracy. Okay Im done.
oookay. thanks.

Originally posted by Kenny
Tell me what you mean by this, immediately.

edit: fuck it, you didn't reply quick enough...here goes...

I don't know where you're going with this point, but I hope its not the whole "WELL THIS COUNTRY WAS STARTED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS BLAH BLAH BLAH WHERE WOULD WE BE IF THEY HADN'T RECEIVED AID?"

(if that was what you meant by your previous statement, then i have this to say to you.)

This country may have been started because of aliens leaving a place they hated (the UK) and going to a new place and making a new life for themselves. BUT they worked their fucking asses off, fought a huge war for their freedom and gained their independence on their own. THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE FREE HANDOUTS LIKE THESE WORTHLESS ASS ILLEGALS DO! THEY DIDN'T GET FREE FOOD, EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE! THEY WORKED FOR EVERYTHING THEY GOT! And they also didn't send the money the made back to their home country...

The biggest influx of money to Mexico comes from where??? Take a wild guess?

Labor money that the illegals make (in most cases, tax free i might add :)) and send back to their families. Which may be sweet and all, but fuck it, pay some god damn taxes and come to this country legally, its not that hard. The free welfare to illegals needs to stop, NOW. End of story. No more of this Japanese Economy crap, that has nothing to do with this. Illegal aliens cost taxpayers so much fucking money its outrageous, and they don't have to pay a fucking dime in taxes. I WIN.

Fine, Kenny, you win. But what the hell are you gonna do about it?

Kenny

08-14-2003, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by boydme
oookay. thanks.

Fine, Kenny, you win. But what the hell are you gonna do about it?

Dance. Im gonna do the "I WIN" dance

boydme

08-15-2003, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Kenny
Dance. Im gonna do the "I WIN" dance

can I watch?

nympho

08-15-2003, 12:01 AM

i'd like to see that shit...

asnchic

08-15-2003, 12:07 AM

Ya you do realize thats because we rebuilt them after WW2. It's also why Germany and France don't completely suck.

Yeah, what difference does that make? They're not completely capitalist under our terms, they have their own economies and though they might not be doing as well as ours are...at least they're working. It could be a lot worse.

As for your quote of "yankee", it doesn't have anything referring to it as a derogatory name. A bitch does. And I never thought of the Union as being a bad thing.

I never denied Socialism existed. I merely said it sucked. I know a lot. I know the early Americans the Pilgrims tryed Socialism they almost starved to death. So theres one fact... If you want elaboration I would gladly get my government book and quote from it.

I never said you did, but that doesn't mean you should be completely cut off from the idea that it works. Maybe not as well as you'd like, but it still works.

And didn't America at one point have socialist touches to some of our laws? There was something about electricity back in the days in the North Carolina region at one point.

Probably better off. Sure some of it has been good but this current system sucks quite frankly. Even FDR didn't mean for it to go on for this long.

And what would such a decision entail? We're to sit here and deny others the help that we could so easily give? Yes okay...we should look to our own borders and not give a damn about anyone else for the rest of this country's existence. That didn't work too well either.

I don't know where you're going with this point, but I hope its not the whole "WELL THIS COUNTRY WAS STARTED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS BLAH BLAH BLAH WHERE WOULD WE BE IF THEY HADN'T RECEIVED AID?"

LOL, for once Kenny, don't get so angry so quickly.

My own parents came here illegally but then became legal within the following year or few months. I'm just saying a lot of people started off illegal and then became legal within different periods of time. So in that standpoint, some people wouldn't be here if their familes didn't decide to move. So, it hits a nerve when people get aggravated so quickly with this.

Just an observation. And if you want to win, that's cool by me, just so long as you realize I wasn't going to make that point to begin with.

boydme

08-15-2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by nympho
i'd like to see that shit...

lol yeah. that'd be funny as hell.

Originally posted by asnchic
Yeah, what difference does that make? They're not completely capitalist under our terms, they have their own economies and though they might not be doing as well as ours are...at least they're working. It could be a lot worse.

As for your quote of "yankee", it doesn't have anything referring to it as a derogatory name. A bitch does. And I never thought of the Union as being a bad thing.

I never said you did, but that doesn't mean you should be completely cut off from the idea that it works. Maybe not as well as you'd like, but it still works.

And didn't America at one point have socialist touches to some of our laws? There was something about electricity back in the days in the North Carolina region at one point.

And what would such a decision entail? We're to sit here and deny others the help that we could so easily give? Yes okay...we should look to our own borders and not give a damn about anyone else for the rest of this country's existence. That didn't work too well either.

LOL, for once Kenny, don't get so angry so quickly.

My own parents came here illegally but then became legal within the following year or few months. I'm just saying a lot of people started off illegal and then became legal within different periods of time. So in that standpoint, some people wouldn't be here if their familes didn't decide to move. So, it hits a nerve when people get aggravated so quickly with this.

Just an observation. And if you want to win, that's cool by me, just so long as you realize I wasn't going to make that point to begin with.

kenny = pwned!

Kenny

08-15-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by asnchic
LOL, for once Kenny, don't get so angry so quickly.

My own parents came here illegally but then became legal within the following year or few months. I'm just saying a lot of people started off illegal and then became legal within different periods of time. So in that standpoint, some people wouldn't be here if their familes didn't decide to move. So, it hits a nerve when people get aggravated so quickly with this.

Just an observation. And if you want to win, that's cool by me, just so long as you realize I wasn't going to make that point to begin with.

I don't get angry very easily. Just seems like it on here...thats why i said....

Originally posted by Kenny
Tell me what you mean by this, immediately.

edit: fuck it, you didn't reply quick enough...here goes...

<u>I don't know where you're going with this point, but I hope its not the whole "WELL THIS COUNTRY WAS STARTED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS BLAH BLAH BLAH WHERE WOULD WE BE IF THEY HADN'T RECEIVED AID?"

(if that was what you meant by your previous statement, then i have this to say to you.)</u>

I already thought that you meant something about your family or something like that, which is cool, thats why i said "I hope you don't mean..." I just couldn't help myself, I had that post written and ready and everything, I had to unleash it.

So, had you been reading my post close enough, you would have said to yourself, "Hey, i wasn't trying to make the point he's talking about, so maybe this profanity filled tirade wasn't directed at me"

And i don't get pwned. evAr.

Daniel

08-15-2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by asnchic
Yeah, what difference does that make? They're not completely capitalist under our terms, they have their own economies and though they might not be doing as well as ours are...at least they're working. It could be a lot worse.

They are working cause we started them ours is working too its just shit keeps happening! It would be a lot worse had we not helped them out. Why does Hong Kong's economy kick ass compared to the rest of China's Jen? Because its more Capitalist! or those who like Capitalism call it Free Market.

As for your quote of "yankee", it doesn't have anything referring to it as a derogatory name. A bitch does. And I never thought of the Union as being a bad thing.

Well dude the people who you are fighting at a present time... When you yell their name it becomes a derogatory name. Kinda like if your in a fight with someone and you shout their name. You don't mean it in a good way do you? It still carries over as slang even if dictionaries don't have it in there as such.

I never said you did, but that doesn't mean you should be completely cut off from the idea that it works. Maybe not as well as you'd like, but it still works.

And didn't America at one point have socialist touches to some of our laws? There was something about electricity back in the days in the North Carolina region at one point.

It doesn't work though! That is why Japan or any other place that is socialistic isn't fully a Socialism because it doesn't work! It's been tried and been found wanting...

Yes we do but I didn't put them there. I didn't decide to call our Federal Republic a Democracy either. I really dont know where that North Carolina point came from. But it's not Socialist anymore... Maybe thats because they found a better system.

And what would such a decision entail? We're to sit here and deny others the help that we could so easily give? Yes okay...we should look to our own borders and not give a damn about anyone else for the rest of this country's existence. That didn't work too well either.

I never said that we should stop giving did I? No... I didn't. I think we could come up with a better system. Than as good old LBJ said!

No longer will older Americans be denied the
healing miracle of modern medicine. No longer
will illness crush and destroy the savings that
they have so carefully put away over a lifetime
so that they might enjoy dignity in their later
years. No longer will young families see their
own incomes, and their own hopes, eaten away
simply because they are carrying out their deep
moral obligations to their parents, and to their
uncles, and their aunts.

And this is not just our tradition--or the tradition
of the Democratic Party--or even the tradition of
the Nation. It is as old as the day it was first
commanded: "Thou shalt open thine hand wide
unto thy brother, to thy poor, to thy needy,
in thy land."

Im with this totally... But notice how the Bible says "thine hand". Not open thine hand wide and also that of thy brothers....

pimptress

08-16-2003, 10:22 AM

i had a really good post to this.. but it took me so long to write.. and it was really thought out.. that when i posted it... the boards had signed me out...

so just consider all that oppose me owned..

haha jk i'll write it later

asnchic

08-17-2003, 06:55 PM

So, had you been reading my post close enough, you would have said to yourself, "Hey, i wasn't trying to make the point he's talking about, so maybe this profanity filled tirade wasn't directed at me"

Well, apologies Kenny, when I see so much cuss words I get a bit aggravated so I usually don't read them through and through.

They are working cause we started them ours is working too its just shit keeps happening! It would be a lot worse had we not helped them out. Why does Hong Kong's economy kick ass compared to the rest of China's Jen? Because its more Capitalist! or those who like Capitalism call it Free Market.

I'm not arguing with you about the merits of the system. I'm simply stating that IT WORKS and if China wants it that way, then that's simply what they're going to have to settle for.

I'm not denying that it wouldn't be good had we not helped them, I agree. But it's not exactly something people should run around screaming about and being proud of. What are we doing really Daniel? Helping economies of countries where money is important but we're giving faulty contraception to countries in Africa?

Well dude the people who you are fighting at a present time... When you yell their name it becomes a derogatory name. Kinda like if your in a fight with someone and you shout their name. You don't mean it in a good way do you? It still carries over as slang even if dictionaries don't have it in there as such.

Okay...*yells Daniel*...how is that an insult? Yells *white boy*...okay...*waits*

It's only an insult by interpretation, some people actually like being called cast-iron bitches, *white boys*, and every other name there is in the book of language.

It doesn't work though! That is why Japan or any other place that is socialistic isn't fully a Socialism because it doesn't work! It's been tried and been found wanting...

No, they did it because people were too poor to use electricity so they devised a way to let them use electricity without paying for it. Damn it, I would love to have my AP history book back right about now.

And maybe socialism is bad, but it exists. SOME countries incorporate socialist influences into their own governments. Maybe it's not good...but hey, it works for THEM.

And this is not just our tradition--or the tradition
of the Democratic Party--or even the tradition of
the Nation. It is as old as the day it was first
commanded: "Thou shalt open thine hand wide
unto thy brother, to thy poor, to thy needy,
in thy land."

I'll dispute this later.

Daniel

08-18-2003, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by asnchic
I'm not arguing with you about the merits of the system. I'm simply stating that IT WORKS and if China wants it that way, then that's simply what they're going to have to settle for.

I don't know if it works. It runs but does it really work? Sure they have to settle for what they get out of the system. But what about all the people that would rather have a better system. They don't get heard because Socialism is a repressive/authoritative system. Socialism is what begets rolling blackouts/outdated phone systems.

I'm not denying that it wouldn't be good had we not helped them, I agree. But it's not exactly something people should run around screaming about and being proud of. What are we doing really Daniel? Helping economies of countries where money is important but we're giving faulty contraception to countries in Africa?

Im proud of the fact we helped them. I was also stating a fact. Im telling you if I was elected President I'd have all this sorted out for you Jen. We'd rebuild Iraq make it nice as hell. Also in Africa we'd get Condoms To Go to build hunderds if not thousands of stores there.

Okay...*yells Daniel*...how is that an insult?

It's not a insult because you yelled that out of passion not anger.

Yells *white boy*...okay...*waits*

It's only an insult by interpretation, some people actually like being called cast-iron bitches, *white boys*, and every other name there is in the book of language.

See if we were being all about political correctness... I could get angry about that. But I don't understand why thats a insult kinda like saying, "Hey black boy!". It's stating a fact I am white and male. Thus I am a white boy or rather a white man.

Hey if you don't know my name feel free to call me... White Boy, White Guy, White Man, Dude, Guy, Man, or Hey You. But then there are people like KyleStyle that would yell at you for half those names. It's because some people are really up-tight or over sensitive.

By the way by interpretation most of the south think calling someone a Yankee is a insult. As do most people from the north think being called a Yankee by a southerner is a insult. But if someone from the UK, Australia, or Canada calls you one then they just mean you are a American and a Yankee Doodle Dandy!

By the way what the heck is a cast-iron bitch? I never heard that one before.

No, they did it because people were too poor to use electricity so they devised a way to let them use electricity without paying for it. Damn it, I would love to have my AP history book back right about now.

And maybe socialism is bad, but it exists. SOME countries incorporate socialist influences into their own governments. Maybe it's not good...but hey, it works for THEM.

Thats all well in good but most things that are free are cheaply constructed. Like look ok my grandparents got some work done on their house by the city for being senior citizens and living in the same place for 50-60 yrs. It was shitty work. They put so many holes in and bent the pipes for the Kitchen and Bathroom. They put siding on the house and threw away the mail box that goes on top of the siding... It wasnt broke or anything they just threw it away with the siding for some reason.

Kinda like the power lines in the North East are cheaply constructed cause there is no money in putting in better ones. We'd all be on 26k modems if there was no money in Cable/DSL.

This is why are system kicks ass. Because in our system the Consumer has a choice. He/She gets the best product for the best price. You know why no one liked/likes to eat in Russia? Because a lot of the restraunts use to be government run and had horrible safety/sanitary codes. But you couldn't go to any better place because they were all government run. You could cook yourself sure. But the Government has a monopoly on all the food products so they cost you a arm and a leg.

I'll dispute this later.

To quote the Professional Wrestler "The Rock" - Just bring it!.

Kenny

08-19-2003, 12:10 AM

Off topic bastards.

Kenny

10-08-2003, 01:24 PM

BUMP. GODDESS04, READ THIS.

mididoctors

10-17-2003, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Kenny
Tell me what you mean by this, immediately.

edit: fuck it, you didn't reply quick enough...here goes...

I don't know where you're going with this point, but I hope its not the whole "WELL THIS COUNTRY WAS STARTED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS BLAH BLAH BLAH WHERE WOULD WE BE IF THEY HADN'T RECEIVED AID?"

(if that was what you meant by your previous statement, then i have this to say to you.)

This country may have been started because of aliens leaving a place they hated (the UK) and going to a new place and making a new life for themselves. BUT they worked their fucking asses off, fought a huge war for their freedom and gained their independence on their own. THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE FREE HANDOUTS LIKE THESE WORTHLESS ASS ILLEGALS DO! THEY DIDN'T GET FREE FOOD, EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE! THEY WORKED FOR EVERYTHING THEY GOT! And they also didn't send the money the made back to their home country...

The biggest influx of money to Mexico comes from where??? Take a wild guess?

Labor money that the illegals make (in most cases, tax free i might add :)) and send back to their families. Which may be sweet and all, but fuck it, pay some god damn taxes and come to this country legally, its not that hard. The free welfare to illegals needs to stop, NOW. End of story. No more of this Japanese Economy crap, that has nothing to do with this. Illegal aliens cost taxpayers so much fucking money its outrageous, and they don't have to pay a fucking dime in taxes. I WIN.

It is unclear what your point is.... surley the cheap farm workers and there attendant influence on farm prices may in the final analysis save you money as a consumer despite the Tax hike?

has any serious comparison being made to the coast of using this labour source an keeping it "happy" when unemployed been made.....

I would have thought state and federal goverment would have made indepth studies of the problem and come up with the most cost effect solution... ie cheapest for the tax payer...

theres no point removing welfare aid if the illegals than expand the amount of criminal acivity. the cost of policing would possably be much higher surley?

or are you saying that if welfare was stopped then illiegals would be less prone to cross the boarder?

which was not the case in the past or am I wrong about that?

what was the level of welfre aid to illegals in the 1970's for instance....?

intuitivily it is the hope of higher paid work that attracts the large numbers into the states or DID.. ifthis situation has changed to one where the attraction is the welfare then it would follow that this is only possable due to the large numbers already here..ie the legacy of history.

You could remove the welfare benefits but it seems unclear in my mind what that would cause and would it realy be better and cheaper than what you have now?

Kenny

10-17-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by mididoctors
It is unclear what your point is.... surley the cheap farm workers and there attendant influence on farm prices may in the final analysis save you money as a consumer despite the Tax hike?

has any serious comparison being made to the coast of using this labour source an keeping it "happy" when unemployed been made.....

I would have thought state and federal goverment would have made indepth studies of the problem and come up with the most cost effect solution... ie cheapest for the tax payer...

theres no point removing welfare aid if the illegals than expand the amount of criminal acivity. the cost of policing would possably be much higher surley?

or are you saying that if welfare was stopped then illiegals would be less prone to cross the boarder?

which was not the case in the past or am I wrong about that?

what was the level of welfre aid to illegals in the 1970's for instance....?

intuitivily it is the hope of higher paid work that attracts the large numbers into the states or DID.. ifthis situation has changed to one where the attraction is the welfare then it would follow that this is only possable due to the large numbers already here..ie the legacy of history.

You could remove the welfare benefits but it seems unclear in my mind what that would cause and would it realy be better and cheaper than what you have now?

OK for one, this argument was made months ago, so I've lost my train of thought since then, and your replies never make any sense.

The government will not do any kind of studies about a solution to the problem because they are so afraid of offending the Mexican government. I think that putting soldiers on the border would be MUCH cheaper than having to spend BILLIONS of dollars a year on aid for people who don't even belong here. Bottom line is, they are breaking the law, and a law is a law is a law is a law. They don't deserve free welfare benefits for breaking the law and getting into this country illegally. Fuck it, i gotta go to school.

mididoctors

10-17-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Kenny

The government will not do any kind of studies about a solution to the problem because they are so afraid of offending the Mexican government. I think that putting soldiers on the border would be MUCH cheaper than having to spend BILLIONS of dollars a year on aid for people who don't even belong here. Bottom line is, they are breaking the law, and a law is a law is a law is a law. They don't deserve free welfare benefits for breaking the law and getting into this country illegally. Fuck it, i gotta go to school. [/b]

Hmm are you sure?

Your saying the US gov will expend this money because it wants good relations with the mexican gov?

than rather its own electorate which no doubt could effect its chances of re-election?

that seems unlikley to me but I will put that aside for the mo...

The point I am making is realy this...assuming that you act solely on your instinct of right and wrong (your appeal to the law there)

OK you remove the welfare benefits what effect do you think that would have if you had such a policy?

would it be cheaper? you suggest te solution would be to beef up security on the Rio grande/Mexican boarder..is this feasable? will it work?

what about the illegals already here how would they react to such a policy?

Kenny

10-17-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by mididoctors
Hmm are you sure?

Your saying the US gov will expend this money because it wants good relations with the mexican gov?

than rather its own electorate which no doubt could effect its chances of re-election?

that seems unlikley to me but I will put that aside for the mo...

The point I am making is realy this...assuming that you act solely on your instinct of right and wrong (your appeal to the law there)

OK you remove the welfare benefits what effect do you think that would have if you had such a policy?

would it be cheaper? you suggest te solution would be to beef up security on the Rio grande/Mexican boarder..is this feasable? will it work?

what about the illegals already here how would they react to such a policy?

First off, are you from the USA? Your replies don't seem as if you are from here.

Yes, the American government expends this money because it does not want to offend the Mexican government, because so many legal Mexicans have illegal relatives, and the Mexican vote can be influencial. The "electorate" doesn't really have a problem with this because no one cares enough to see just how much money we spend on these illegals every year, they want to bitch about stuff like the war in Iraq instead. Because trust me, if CNN or Fox News constantly had coverage on the amount of money the government spends on illegal aliens every year that they have coverage of the war, plenty of people would be pissed, and something might get done, but this is not the case.

If this were under the states' jurisdiction (which its not, the states have NO power in this matter whatsoever, even though the states are the ones affected by the illegals, NOT the govt in washington DC), the problem would most likely be solved.

If we put troops on the border instead of half-ass border patrol, the problem would most definitely be solved. I'm sure the taxpayers would be more likely to approve paying soldiers to police our borders if they saw how much of a drain illegal aliens are to our states. Look at it this way. Cut all aid to illegal immigrants, you save around 2-3 BILLION dollars a year. Paying soldiers to police the borders, you'd be looking at a few MILLION dollars a year. I think i'll take a few MILLION in soliders' (who ARE legal citizens btw) salaries over giving free aid to illegals (WHO ARE ILLEGAL, THUS THEY SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHTS THAT LEGAL CITIZENS HAVE).

The military solution on the border would be MUCH MUCH cheaper than the system we have in place now, which is pretty much no system at all.

Sure, if you remove the welfare system for illegals they're going to get pissed. But, if I break a law, do I not get punished? They are breaking the law here, they should not be rewarded for it. They come here illegally and get help from our government, AT THE EXPENSE OF LEGAL, TAX PAYING CITIZENS. Illegals don't even pay taxes, yet they get free aid, how much sense does that make? The system we have in place now makes no sense at all whatsoever. Seriously, how can anyone justify giving aid to people who 1) Break the law by coming into this country and 2) DON'T PAY TAXES.

boydme

10-17-2003, 04:26 PM

i've pretty much stopped visiting this site, but this argument is getting ridiculous.

Originally posted by Kenny
The government will not do any kind of studies about a solution to the problem because they are so afraid of offending the Mexican government. I think that putting soldiers on the border would be MUCH cheaper than having to spend BILLIONS of dollars a year on aid for people who don't even belong here. Bottom line is, they are breaking the law, and a law is a law is a law is a law. They don't deserve free welfare benefits for breaking the law and getting into this country illegally.
oh would it be much cheaper? think about the time we're in right now. we're at war, bush is asking for billions of dollars in aid for Iraq, which he isnt going to get...do you really think employing soldiers at the border is really going to be cheap? or effective?
why dont you address the problem of welfare? why not complain that the welfare system has a shitty way of handing out free food stamps. Man, if i were you, i'd be complaining that the people who are legal citizens are getting jipped out of THEIR food stamps and aren't getting enough of what they need. instead, you're complaining about how its affecting YOUR tax. tell me, how much does this tax in Texas take out of your paycheck a week? 2 dollars? it seems to me like you have your priorities wrong.
our welfare system is SHIT right now. our minimum wage is WAAYYY too low, and you're fucking worried about 3 or 4 dollars that are taken out of your paycheck every week and that some of it MIGHT got to illegal immigrants? oh please.
seriously, if im angry about illegal aliens getting welfare, i'd be pissed that other poor people who work entry-level jobs and get minimum wage are getting ripped off of THEIR food stamps. Be grateful you're not on foodstamps.

Illegals don't even pay taxes, yet they get free aid, how much sense does that make?
what makes you think that they're not working? if they work, they pay taxes...right?

If we put troops on the border instead of half-ass border patrol, the problem would most definitely be solved. I'm sure the taxpayers would be more likely to approve paying soldiers to police our borders if they saw how much of a drain illegal aliens are to our states.
what about refugees escaping cuba? what about people fleeing from their country because of a tyrant leader? if those people flee their country (whether it be for religious persecution or a military junta) and make it to our borders (where YOUR soldiers are on duty) whats going to happen? They're going to get sent back. and they're going to be killed. is that just?
oh wait...the US gov't doesnt give a shit about those people, because its more than likely that we INSTALLED that dictator that they're running from.

and im sorry i went back on my word about not posting here anymore, but this argument is STILL going on, and it was annoying the hell outta me.

boydme

10-17-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Kenny
The government will not do any kind of studies about a solution to the problem because they are so afraid of offending the Mexican government.
i'm sure the US isnt really THAT worried about "offending" the Mexican government. What about "offending" 90 % of Europe by going to war with Iraq? they obviously didnt even think about it twice. i'm sure if it were as big of a problem as you say it is, the US govt would work with the Mexican gov't to help regulate who's leaving their country.
But again, blame the welfare system, not the illegal aliens. maybe they dont know any better.

Kenny

10-17-2003, 04:36 PM

I agree with you, the whole welfare system is fucked up completely. The minimum wage IS too low, i will give you all of those points because you are right about these things, but I'm talking about free aid to illegal immigrants, not legal citizens, stay on topic. And, maybe you haven't worked with illegal aliens before. More often than not they get paid in cash, and they do not pay taxes. If the USA weren't afraid of offending the Mexican government, they would have stopped the flood of illegals into this country long ago. Come live down here for a little while, you'll understand how the illegal immigrant situation is fucked up. I didn't bring this argument up again anyway, the "mididoctors" person did.

boydme

10-17-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Kenny
I agree with you, the whole welfare system is fucked up completely. The minimum wage IS too low, i will give you all of those points because you are right about these things, but I'm talking about free aid to illegal immigrants, not legal citizens, stay on topic. And, maybe you haven't worked with illegal aliens before. More often than not they get paid in cash, and they do not pay taxes. If the USA weren't afraid of offending the Mexican government, they would have stopped the flood of illegals into this country long ago. Come live down here for a little while, you'll understand how the illegal immigrant situation is fucked up. I didn't bring this argument up again anyway, the "mididoctors" person did.

so how exactly are they getting welfare? the problem isnt the illegal immigrants. the problem is the welfare system. the welfare system SHOULDNT be giving them aid, i agree, IF they dont pay taxes. but if you fix the welfare system, illegal aliens might work harder to become citizens, WILL pay taxes, and get welfare legally. i was on topic, you just misunderstood me. i dont understand how they COULD get welfare in the first place, but why dont you fix the welfare system so that illegals wont get the money in the first place, instead of putting soldiers around the border and, GOD FORBID, take away from our national defense (obviously i really dont care about our national defense, but you know what i mean, for those conservatives out there who think we should enlist everyone). do you see what i mean? the problem is the welfare system GIVING them the food stamps, not the patrol.

Kenny

10-17-2003, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by boydme
so how exactly are they getting welfare? the problem isnt the illegal immigrants. the problem is the welfare system. the welfare system SHOULDNT be giving them aid, i agree, IF they dont pay taxes. but if you fix the welfare system, illegal aliens might work harder to become citizens, WILL pay taxes, and get welfare legally. i was on topic, you just misunderstood me. i dont understand how they COULD get welfare in the first place, but why dont you fix the welfare system so that illegals wont get the money in the first place, instead of putting soldiers around the border and, GOD FORBID, take away from our national defense (obviously i really dont care about our national defense, but you know what i mean, for those conservatives out there who think we should enlist everyone). do you see what i mean? the problem is the welfare system GIVING them the food stamps, not the patrol.

Like i said to you on AIM, if an illegal tries to get welfare, they should be deported immediately. But unfortunately, your liberal ACLU compadres would not let this sort of thing happen, because punishing illegals for breaking our laws would be "violating their civil rights" in some way, even though they should not have any rights in the first place, being illegal and all.

boydme

10-17-2003, 04:51 PM

ack, dont attack my "liberalism" not all liberals are the same, mind you. thats a good way to piss me off, and its part of the reason i left mmc.

Kenny

10-17-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by boydme
ack, dont attack my "liberalism" not all liberals are the same, mind you. thats a good way to piss me off, and its part of the reason i left mmc.

haha sorry, forgot to add a winky face like i should have, that was just a stab to get you all riled up. Post more, i need someone to argue with who won't cry. btw I know there are some shitty conservatives too, it just boils down to shitty people in general regardless of political views.

boydme

10-18-2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Kenny
haha sorry, forgot to add a winky face like i should have, that was just a stab to get you all riled up. Post more, i need someone to argue with who won't cry. btw I know there are some shitty conservatives too, it just boils down to shitty people in general regardless of political views.

pretty much. and yeah, the winky face definitely would've helped, but i guess your 'stab to get me riled up' worked. all the more power to ya.

Kenny

10-19-2003, 11:18 PM

i win.

eddwarddwooddwardd

10-20-2003, 06:39 AM

good to see you back boydme

over here the situation is, enter the country, claim aslyum, whilst waiting &/or whilst appealing a refusal decision you arent allowed to work (tho' many do) so you have to 'sign on' (claim welfare). this whole process of waitibg appeal typically has taken 2 years, plenty of time to hide, get a job etc

the thing that really p*sses ppl off is that these aslyum seekers get straight to the top of the council housing list & thus are seen as getting preferential treatment
currently we talking just under 100,000 ppl p.a.

tecnically aslyum seekers are supposed to claim asylum at the first country they come to.

i've spoken to several dozen aslyum seekers, the reaason why they come here is basically cos they speak english, as opposed to the reason that tabloid papers give :'we're a soft touch'

i'm virtually the only person i know who has no problem with this. moreorless everyone else, including 2nd generation 'immigrants', moans about it & blame the govt.

Is it legal for illegals to claim welfare in the US, from what you say its not clear to me?

Kenny

10-20-2003, 10:17 AM

Illegals get government aid, yes they can claim welfare.

boydme

10-20-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Kenny
Illegals get government aid, yes they can claim welfare.

so, again, fix the welfare system so that they CANT claim welfare. And get your damn governor turned president to give a shit about his people. dont forget to "elect a Texas governor for president" man, im such an idiot.

boydme

10-20-2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by eddwarddwooddwardd
good to see you back boydme

over here the situation is, enter the country, claim aslyum, whilst waiting &/or whilst appealing a refusal decision you arent allowed to work (tho' many do) so you have to 'sign on' (claim welfare). this whole process of waitibg appeal typically has taken 2 years, plenty of time to hide, get a job etc

the thing that really p*sses ppl off is that these aslyum seekers get straight to the top of the council housing list & thus are seen as getting preferential treatment
currently we talking just under 100,000 ppl p.a.

tecnically aslyum seekers are supposed to claim asylum at the first country they come to.

i've spoken to several dozen aslyum seekers, the reaason why they come here is basically cos they speak english, as opposed to the reason that tabloid papers give :'we're a soft touch'

i'm virtually the only person i know who has no problem with this. moreorless everyone else, including 2nd generation 'immigrants', moans about it & blame the govt.

Is it legal for illegals to claim welfare in the US, from what you say its not clear to me?

im not back. the only person ill argue with is kenny because he doesnt attack me or call me a "damn liberal" and when he does...he does his "winky" face. so i know he's joking.

Friend

10-21-2003, 03:22 AM

medical care is a privelage...not a right

Kenny

10-21-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by boydme
so, again, fix the welfare system so that they CANT claim welfare. And get your damn governor turned president to give a shit about his people. dont forget to "elect a Texas governor for president" man, im such an idiot.

Like I've told you before. The President is powerless as long as CONGRESS doesn't give a shit about the situation. Its not like Bush can just make his own law and sign it, he has to have the support of Congress, YOU KNOW THIS. So quit trying to put this all on Bush. It is in fact, the fault of your beloved Democrats and the ACLU, because well, their platform is "EVERYONE deserves the same rights and privileges", correct? Welfare reform starts in CONGRESS, not with the president. Reform would require some kind of bi-partisan cooperation, and we all know the ACLU will not stand for the "rights" of illegals to be violated. So, get your liberal senators to give a fuck, and maybe something would change.

Magita

10-21-2003, 02:30 PM

I am going to pwn pimptress when I get back.

Magita

10-21-2003, 02:30 PM

Whoa. Like, 800 pages I didn't see.

Edit: Nevermind, they were mostly shit.

Asnchic, I love you to bits, but please stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Japan has absolutely fuck-all to do with illegal immigrants getting free healthcare.

Unless I didn't read it carefully enough, and it does. In which case I apologize.

boydme

10-21-2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Kenny
Like I've told you before. The President is powerless as long as CONGRESS doesn't give a shit about the situation. Its not like Bush can just make his own law and sign it, he has to have the support of Congress, YOU KNOW THIS. So quit trying to put this all on Bush. It is in fact, the fault of your beloved Democrats and the ACLU, because well, their platform is "EVERYONE deserves the same rights and privileges", correct? Welfare reform starts in CONGRESS, not with the president. Reform would require some kind of bi-partisan cooperation, and we all know the ACLU will not stand for the "rights" of illegals to be violated. So, get your liberal senators to give a fuck, and maybe something would change.

dude, chill. I wasnt putting it all on Bush. I was making fun of myself for telling you to elect a President from Texas. Sheesh. And its not MY JOB to get the liberal dudes (sorry i just wrote a 4 page paper, im losing my synonyms) in congress to agree with you. Its YOUR CAUSE, YOU persuade them. Asking me to do so would be like me asking YOU to get YOUR DAMN REPUBLICAN SENATORS to vote for a same-sex marriage bill (allowing it, not banning it, mind you). At least get the word "damn" away from "liberal" its so fucking degrading.

Magita

10-21-2003, 07:57 PM

Pimptress:

first off.. i agree with heretic.. if the mexicans wanna come to the US for oppurtunity and money.. then why aren't they legal? they should come here prepared to work their asses off.. and if they have the self dicipline to do that.. whats wrong with paying taxes.. and even if they made very little.. they don't have to pay income tax if they make under $2500 a year...

Don't you think most Mexicans that come here want to become legal citizens? Or at least green-card holders?

there are several teenagers that pay for college, cars, insurance, gas, and all the other stuff that goes on when they start college.. (lets say their parents don't help them out at all.. which is more common than you think).. so why can't the mexicans do it too? and they're not even paying for college!!! which is really expensive!

One of the first things on the applications to any sort of job is "Are you a legal resident of the United States or have permission to work in the United States?" Obviously, we teenagers already have a head start. Those jobs that DO hire you as an illegal immigrant pay close to nothing. I'm talking about 50% of minimum wage, which we both know is complete shite.

also.. there are several professions that require little or no degree at all.. fire fighters, police officers, postal workers.. TONS OF STUFF! and police officers make damn good money and mexicans would be good too.. because then other mexicans can't pull the race card on them AND they speak spainish so they don't need a translator...

I think we've already established that officers need to be legal citizens to be hired, thanks to Nyeh's wonderful post.

Here are the requirements for Mesquite:

http://www.cityofmesquite.com/police_web/p...liceofficer.php (http://www.cityofmesquite.com/police_web/policeofficer.php)

Aha, so you do need some college hours. Whoopsie on your part.

Also, the police exam is generally given in English, so a basic grasp of the language would also be useful.

Oh! Oh! And I'm thinking, that in order to patrol the streets, one would have to have a driver's license, correct? Are they still giving those out to illegals?
In your made up world where just anyone can become a police officer, your plan is great. Here, however, it is not as easy.

i know that.. but i was just proving that being illegal is dumb because they could make so much more money being legal and that really they're here to leech off of the system and be lazy.. not to make a better life for themselves...

Do you know anything about what it takes to become legal in the United states?

Let me educate you, please.

From http://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/citi...equirements.htm (http://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/citizenship/naturalization_requirements.htm) :

WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR BECOMING A NATURALIZED UNITED STATES CITIZEN?
Generally, there are nine requirements:

An applicant for naturalization must be admitted to the United States as a "lawful permanent resident" commonly referred to as one who possesses "green card" status. There is only one exception to this requirement: If an applicant has served in the U.S. armed forces during war, that person may be naturalized without first becoming a permanent resident if they were in the U.S. upon induction or enlistment into our military...

Ah, so the first step in this easy process of becoming a citizen is to get a green card. Hmm. Let's check out how to do that before we go any further then.

The most common ways to get a green card is through employment and marraige. I'm assuming you know the basic process of the marraige route, so let's go with employment.

Who is Eligible for Employment Based Immigration?
There are five categories of employment based immigration:

First Preference (EB-1 priority workers): aliens with extraordinary ability, outstanding professors and researchers, and certain multinational executives and managers.

Second Preference (EB-2 workers with advanced degrees or exceptional ability): aliens who are members of the professions holding advanced degrees or their equivalent and aliens who because of their exceptional ability in the sciences, arts, or business will substantially benefit the national economy, cultural, or educational interests or welfare of the United States.

So, Albert Einstein would fall into these categories, but not regular ol' Pablo down the street.

Third Preference (EB-3 professionals, skilled workers, and other workers): aliens with at least two years of experience as skilled workers, professionals with a baccalaureate degree, and others with less than two years experience, such as an unskilled worker who can perform labor for which qualified workers are not available in the United States.

With the economy how it is, try telling me there aren't enough skilled workers that couldn't do any job for a company who was about to import a Mexican for.

Fourth Preference (EB-4 special workers such as those in a religious occupation or vocation): aliens who, for at least two years before applying for admission to the United States, have been a member of a religious denomination that has a non-profit religious organization in the United States, and who will be working in a religious vocation or occupation at the request of the religious organization.

Lucky for those super-Christian Mexicans, then.

Fifth Preference (EB-5 Employment Creation) If you would like to be granted immigrant status in the United States for the purpose of engaging in a new commercial enterprise, please see How Do I Become an Immigrant Through an Investment?.

This does not apply to many, many people.

Alright, so say you get past that, or better yet, marry a citizen. Then what?

Well, first you have to wait five years:

Continuous residence in the U.S. for at least five years immediately preceding the applicant's filing for naturalization.

Then, you have to know English:

The ability to read, write and speak ordinary English unless they are physically unable to do so due to a disability such as being blind or deaf, or suffer from a developmental disability or mental impairment. Those over 50 years old on the date of filing who have lived here for a total of at least 20 years after admission as a permanent resident and those who are over 55 and have been legal permanent residents for at least 15 years are also exempt from this requirement.

Well, unless you're old by the time you finally get around to taking the test.

And:

Applicants should be at least 18 years of age at the time of filing. Certain exceptions exist, however, for the children of other permanent residents who are seeking naturalization.

OH NOES WHAT ABOUT THOSE 12 YR OLD HOMELESS WORKERS OMG.

So, now that you have a little understanding about how the INS works, maybe you would like to form a more educated opinion instead of just spouting out ignorant bullshit?

thats bull crap.. it really is.. theres no way you just CAN'T get a job.. theres always somebody hiring and

True, someone is always hiring illegals to do jobs that don't pay much more than $2 an hour. They know they can take advantage of the fear of these people being caught and deported. So basically, it's going to take them twice as long as any other homeless person to get back on their feet.

I love how you just make this all seem so easy. Maybe I should try being poor!

I'm not touching Graeme's posts. They've reached a new level of incoherence.

DoorKnob:

And for the adults that can't speak english just buy one of those books at the bookstore with the little tapes in it that teaches you how to speak other languages. Those can't be more than 5 bucks at the store.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

lol@trying to learn a new language with that.

My mother has one of those. A lot of good it's doing her.

I teach English to immigrants, and honey, it is not easy. So please sit down before you hurt yourself trying to solve everyone's problems.

You also seem to forget some people go to the free health care center when they have a common cold. They don't buy medicine, or pay taxes, so once again they leech from the rest of society.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any information to back this up, but wouldn't the average illegal be afraid to show up at the hospital for fear of being caught when they show their medical records? It seems like you're just noticing the ones that aren't as common.

Kenny:

All they have to do is have a kid here... a kid born to an illegal in the USA becomes a citizen automatically.

No offense, but I don't understand why you made this comment. <3

So in summary, I think all people in the U.S. should have emergency health care for free, but I'm not ready to form a solid opinion on all health care yet.

Also, a whole lot of you seem to be making statements without first doing research. Yay at being educated.

I had more to say but I stayed out longer than expected and now my feet hurt.

boydme

10-21-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Magita
So in summary, I think all people in the U.S. should have emergency health care for free
w00t! i would've quoted the entire post, but it was really long. he totally pwned. rock on dude.

Nyeh

10-21-2003, 10:42 PM

magita has a vagina

Kenny

10-21-2003, 10:46 PM

I r edookated Magita. And boydme, i will use "damn" all i want. kthxdie ;)

Magita

10-22-2003, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Nyeh
magita has a vagina

'strue.

Trent Steel

10-22-2003, 01:09 AM

just give them the band aid and make them go back to picking the grapes.

Magita

10-22-2003, 07:10 PM

Shit.

Pimptress left a long time ago, didn't she?

What a waste of half an hour. ;__;

eddwarddwooddwardd

10-23-2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Magita
Shit.

Pimptress left a long time ago, didn't she?

What a waste of half an hour. ;__;

no, coz it educated me, thank you.

goddess04

10-23-2003, 10:51 AM

yeah that was very informative, must've taken u a loong time...

Magita

10-23-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by eddwarddwooddwardd
no, coz it educated me, thank you.

Oh. Well good.

Originally posted by goddess04
yeah that was very informative, must've taken u a loong time...

Originally posted by Magita
half an hour. ;__;

boydme

10-23-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Magita
'strue.

oops. sorry. i too have been mistaken for a guy. funny how that is. my apologies dearest. that truly was a good argument though.

pimptress

10-26-2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Magita
Pimptress:

Don't you think most Mexicans that come here want to become legal citizens? Or at least green-card holders?

One of the first things on the applications to any sort of job is "Are you a legal resident of the United States or have permission to work in the United States?" Obviously, we teenagers already have a head start. Those jobs that DO hire you as an illegal immigrant pay close to nothing. I'm talking about 50% of minimum wage, which we both know is complete shite.

I think we've already established that officers need to be legal citizens to be hired, thanks to Nyeh's wonderful post.

Here are the requirements for Mesquite:

http://www.cityofmesquite.com/police_web/p...liceofficer.php (http://www.cityofmesquite.com/police_web/policeofficer.php)

Aha, so you do need some college hours. Whoopsie on your part.

Also, the police exam is generally given in English, so a basic grasp of the language would also be useful.

Oh! Oh! And I'm thinking, that in order to patrol the streets, one would have to have a driver's license, correct? Are they still giving those out to illegals?
In your made up world where just anyone can become a police officer, your plan is great. Here, however, it is not as easy.

Do you know anything about what it takes to become legal in the United states?

Let me educate you, please.

From http://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/citi...equirements.htm (http://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/citizenship/naturalization_requirements.htm) :

Ah, so the first step in this easy process of becoming a citizen is to get a green card. Hmm. Let's check out how to do that before we go any further then.

The most common ways to get a green card is through employment and marraige. I'm assuming you know the basic process of the marraige route, so let's go with employment.

So, Albert Einstein would fall into these categories, but not regular ol' Pablo down the street.

With the economy how it is, try telling me there aren't enough skilled workers that couldn't do any job for a company who was about to import a Mexican for.

Lucky for those super-Christian Mexicans, then.

This does not apply to many, many people.

Alright, so say you get past that, or better yet, marry a citizen. Then what?

Well, first you have to wait five years:

Then, you have to know English:

Well, unless you're old by the time you finally get around to taking the test.

And:

OH NOES WHAT ABOUT THOSE 12 YR OLD HOMELESS WORKERS OMG.

So, now that you have a little understanding about how the INS works, maybe you would like to form a more educated opinion instead of just spouting out ignorant bullshit?

True, someone is always hiring illegals to do jobs that don't pay much more than $2 an hour. They know they can take advantage of the fear of these people being caught and deported. So basically, it's going to take them twice as long as any other homeless person to get back on their feet.

I love how you just make this all seem so easy. Maybe I should try being poor!

hmmm. or they could just stay in mexico?

haha you got me magita. good job. and you even supported it with concrete stuff. not just my 'random bullshit'. niiice. thats relieving to see that somebody here still knows how to argue and picks out my bull crap. i'm proud of you magita. and for that. you get a prize.