Originally posted by Rachel42
Okay, Kenny, well, to poorly quote Shakespeare, “…me thinks thou dost protest too much…”. Let me start by saying that you did get one thing right in your post. You don’t know me. But considering there were four other people sharing some similar political views as mine, I have to believe that my arguments were in fact the ones that challenged you the most. Quite frankly, your need to rush to post a windy, ill-conceived rant on this board at 4:30 in the morning…maybe two hours after you left the party, belies a little insecurity on your part. While you repeatedly claim that my arguments were naive and ignorant it seems they were enough to keep you up the rest of the night. Oh, wait, I’m sorry. I forget. Your post indicates that you are merely giving me advice…whatever. Thanks, but no thanks. I think I would prefer to do my own living, reading, learning and not depend on a silly young man from a conservatively-bent, East Texas, party school whose got a few poli-sci classes under his belt and now thinks he knows how the world turns.
Ahhh, just the reply I was looking for. :) It's about time someone challenged me on this board with more than just "FUCK U". I'll give you credit, your reply was very well written and thought out. Your arguments did stay with me, because you were the only one in the group who argued passionately about anything, which is cool. But, you are still wrong. My school is not conservatively-bent; myself and my friends are the stark minority on campus. Our campus is quite liberal actually. I've had more than a few poli-sci classes under my belt, and I am working with several political campaigns as we speak, which is why I have the assertions and views about politics that I do. I never claimed that I know how the world turns, becauase I do not.
Originally posted by rachel42
Now to address a few of your more laughable assertions:
Here is an example...Simply saying, "OMG OMG blacks are hindered from succeeding in college because they are black and uh...they are poor...and uh..COLLEGES WON'T LET THEM IN BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK!!!"
I guess, of all the things stated in your post, this irritates me the most. First of all, what big balls you must think you have to actually quote me this way. Are the three little exclamation points included in the quote attributed to the emotion with which I supposedly said this crap or is that your own enthusiasm for using all capital letters? Because, I don’t speak this way. Anyone who does actually know me, knows this is total bullshit. In fact, I clearly stated that I didn’t have enough knowledge nor had I experienced what black students had. Throughout the discussion on affirmative action, I had the least to say.
You, however, seem to be extremely knowledgeable on the subject, especially for a white guy from Forney, Texas.
Of course I know alot about affirmative action. And I've lived in Mesquite my whole life, not Forney, just FYI. You act like I have to be a minority or a woman to know anything about affirmative action.
Here is how our argument about affirmative action in college went down, VERBATIM...
Me: "Anyone can start off in a community college, no matter who they are or what their background is, get good grades, and get into a 4 year university."
Rachel: "YEAH BUT LOTS OF TIMES THEY WONT GET IN BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK!!"
Me: "No, look at the system we have now...Being black helps a person get into college, it does not hurt them."
Rachel: "....."
I added the caps and exclamation points because you were screaming at me when you said it.
(My argument in previous post)
Like I said at Jared's...Anyone can succeed in college if they have the ambition and drive to do so. You do not even have to have a high school diploma or a GED to get into Eastfield. Eastfield is easily affordable, and for those who do not have the money to get into Eastfield, there are plenty of aid programs so said person can get in. Once you start at Eastfield, make badass grades there, and take a considerable amount of hours, it is almost certain that someone can get into a good 4 year university. In fact, being black HELPS you get into a 4 year university regardless.
Originally posted by rachel42+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rachel42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Not only do you know all about Eastfield’s admission policies but you also seem to have a solid understanding of what is “easily affordable” for working people in Dallas County…did you research this one, Kenny? Because your statement sounds pretty subjective to me.[/b]
Well, considering that I went to Eastfield for 2 years, I think I know alot about how much tuition is. As far as admission goes, I know for a fact that you do not have to have a high school diploma or even a GED to get into Eastfield. All you have to do is pass the TASP and pass their accuplacer exams and you're in. Tuition for 15 hours at Eastfield is $450. Books usually run about 300 dollars or so. So you're looking at 750 a semester for a full load of classes. Student loans are available to just about anyone who needs them, and there is tons of federeal aid out there for single mothers or anyone who cannot put themselves through community college. If all else fails, you can pay tuition in installments. (information taken from https://www1.dcccd.edu/cat0304/tuition/sche...edule.cfm?loc=4 (https://www1.dcccd.edu/cat0304/tuition/schedule.cfm?loc=4) ). Even if you don't have time to actually go to the school for class, many online classes are also offered as well as self paced classes. So you can't tell me that going to a community college is not affordable or feasible for a working person in Dallas County.
<!--QuoteBegin-rachel42
Anyway, on to your next inane attempt to “advise” me…
(Kenny's argument)You also claim that Bush lied about WMD's being in Iraq and thus waged a false war, which is a valid argument I suppose. You seem to be naive to the fact that ALL politicians at every level lie about lots of things. It does not make it right, but that is how the world of politics works. You need to realize this before venturing into political discussion. Politicians lie. People lie. It is human nature to lie. But I am getting off topic here....
(Rachel's reply)
Wow. In one sentence you call me naïve while you claim to be privy to the inner motivations and actions of “ALL” politicans. Your seeming Devine knowledge is amazing! But let me just suggest to you that maybe your reactionary position, this commonly held hillbilly notion that, “all politicians lie” is trite, tiresome and by the way, I believe, dangerous in a democracy. This is the excuse that fearful, uneducated people use for not participating in our government. Kenny, I think its cool that you are interested politics, but it seems so irresponsible to me for you to spout this crap. It’s the kind of belief that makes people think they can’t make a difference and that is just wrong. I do believe people can make a difference. I don’t believe that ALL politicians are liars. You can call me naieve, you can call me an idealist. I don’t care. But I happen to believe that public service is noble, that there are some good people in politics who try and honestly make a difference, otherwise what’s the point?[/quote]
Come on Rachel, get with reality. My opinion is not a "hillbilly" notion or anything, it is REALISTIC! All politicians lie, because all people lie. I dare you to find a politician somewhere who actually delivers everything that they promise to their constituents. I am very educated, and not fearful at all, but I am a realist, and I know that in order to please the vast amount of people required to win any election, a politician has to bend his message somehow. I participate in the political process, and so does everyone that I am close to, but they too realize that politics is a game. Anyone who does not realize that is kidding themselves. You are a very strong idealist, and that is fine, but we live in the real world. You need to come to grips with the fact that politics is not about being all mushy-gushy and trying to change the world and shit like that. It is about power and money, bottom line. In order to get power and money, politicians cater their message to whoever they are trying to get support from. Politicians win elections because they get the most money and the most face time, not because their views are the best. I am very involved in our government, as much as I can be. I vote every time there is an election of any kind, and I am doing work for several political campaigns in Nacogdoches. I'm going to be a senator in student government next semester. I am going to make a difference in politics in some way, but I am also realistic about the way that politics works. Politicians are fake, and they lie. Name me one political official who has not done something underhanded or dishonest during their tenure. Oh wait, you can't. I mean, look at some recent presidents... Kennedy at the Bay of Pigs, LBJ in Vietnam, Nixon's Watergate scandal, Reagan's Iran-Contra affair, Clinton's crap with Lewinsky and the sale of presidential pardons, and I'm sure there are things that Bush has said and done that have been dishonest, but that is how the world works, and this is not going to change any time soon. Dishonesty in politics is not a partisan issue, both parties do it all the time, that is just how things are.
Originally posted by rachel42+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rachel42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And finally…
(Kenny's Argument)
Have you ever researched anything in politics or foreign relations at all? If you have, you do not sound like it. Your views on politics and the world in general seem to be derived from watching CNN. You seem to make passionate arguments without being informed enough to be so passionate about said subjects.
(Rachel's Reply)
Let me make this point clear. I am not running for political office, I am not researching a dissertation and I am not necessarily trying to change anyone’s point of view. I am a citizen--a twenty-two year old citizen and I am trying to find my way just like every other young adult. That means that I am entitled to my opinion and as long as John Ashcroft and the justice department doesn’t label me a terrorist, I am entitled to free speech. And I’m entitled, by the way to be passionate about whatever I choose, whether you deem I’m “informed enough” or not.[/b]
I can't argue this. Well said. :) You are very much entitled to your own opinion, and it is good that you ever care about politics in the first place.
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For God’s sake, Kenny, why on earth would I have been researching foreign relations? Did you see me? I was in a hot tub, at a party, hanging out with some friends and having a lively conversation. I’m not Conde Rice. I’m an accounting major for God’s sake and I certainly wasn’t trying to represent myself as a foreign relations expert. Are you? And by the way, what’s your problem with CNN? I suppose you get your “fair and balanced” news from Fox Entertainment News. The fact is I have independently read a few books this year out of my own curiosity; not assigned college reading, but my own mind directing me to ask a few questions. Maybe you should read a little Noam Chomsky or even some Ralph Nader. Michael Moore’s, Stupid White Men would probably be really good for you! Whatever your reading, it has somehow allowed you to come to the conclusion that…
A widely accepted theory among political scientists is that the Liberal constituency is largely ignorant and uninformed; you have proven this theory.
Wow. So am I actually quoted and given credit for this “proof” in these widely accepted theories? I guess I’m glad I could do my part…And your assumption that I am “largely ignorant and uniformed”, is that backed up by your own research? What do you know about me, Kenny? I can’t help but wonder at your need to comment on how nice I was to you at the party yet attack my intelligence, and yes, that is personal, on this board. You’re like the bully who once chased me down on the playground just to pull my hair!
[/quote]
You are right. I don't know you, so maybe I should not have went to the degree of criticism that I did. I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong in the way I attacked you. I tend to go off on people alot, I don't know why, that is just how I am.
Hmmm how ironic that Michael Moore would write a book called "Stupid White Men". Is it an auto-biography? I just recently read a book in my Family Values class called "A Simple Guide to Birth Control" by Kamal K. Dutta, MD, maybe you should pick it up sometime. We learned that much of society's problems derive from broken families and from women having children too early in life. Strange concept huh? I also had to do a research paper on drug addictions, and I decided to use "Stop Smoking Forever" by Glenn Harrold in order to learn about strategies people use to overcome their addiction to nicotine. I think both of these books would be "great reading for you" as you say.
Originally posted by rachel42
(Kenny's Argument)
My advice to you: read a book, brush up on your facts, then make some decent political arguments. Pull your head out of your ass and realize that the world is not fair and it never will be. Once again, this is not meant to be a personal attack against you, and I almost feel bad because you were really nice to me in person.
(Rachel's Reply)
Your postings on this board seem to indicate that you live in a very small world and have had limited exposure to people with different experiences than yours. You seem desperate to convince us that you know the answers, you’ve read some books and anyone who doesn’t reach the same narrow minded conclusions as you have are naïve and ignorant. In my opinion that makes you a very lowly evolved thinker and by the way, just plain mean.
So that’s that. And by the way, I typed this while putting a solar system project together with my fatherless four-year old, cleaning up yesterday’s holiday debris and reinforcing my son’s political vocabulary. He says, “Bush is unpredictable”. And I only had to pull my head out of my ass once.
Kudos to you for being involved in your son's school work. I mean that. Parents don't get involved enough with their kids' education.
OK, so I'm a "Lowly evolved" thinker? Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. If I were a "lowly evolved" thinker, how could I have a 3.8 GPA in my junior year of college? By the way, how much college have you completed? Just wondering. How close are you to getting a college degree? I'm 3 semesters away, then I am off to grad school. Lowly Evolved? I think not. Accomplish something, then you can call me lowly evolved all you want. You say you are an accounting major, what university do you go to?
My conclusions may be narrow minded, but they are realistic. Look at my avatar, I AM RIGHT. Of course I like to convince everyone that I am right, because like I said, I am a realist. I have a very open mind about things, I am almost always willing to listen to anything that anyone has to say.
I said the things I said because alot of the arguments you made at Jared's were, in my opinion, largely baseless and entirely too idealistic.
You seem to think that the world should be totally fair for everyone and that everyone has the same opportunities in life, and this just is not true. I do not expect or strive for anyone to have the same views as me, in fact I welcome people who have opposite views of me, talking to people who agree with me all the time is really boring after a while. I welcome any views that are different than mine, but don't expect me not to criticize them. I only expect that when people make arguments about things that they have facts to back them up. I did not hear one bit of fact from you in any of your arguments, in real life or on this board. That is what infuriates me the most. Well, I guess that's about it for now. Thanks for making a reply that did not consist of things like...
Originally posted by Dirty D
fuck this bullshit~ too much to read and it doesnt matter anyways. Your givin me a fuckin headache!
Like I said, you made some valid points, I will give you that. Maybe I should not have attacked you like I did without knowing more about you, but I can't take it back or anything. It is nice to see someone on this board who types things other than "FUCK OFF" or "UR SO FUCKING DUMB KENNY I HATE YOU!!11!!!!". You have an opinion and that is really good, but you seriously need to look at things from a more realistic point of view. Just my "lowly evolved silly East Texas" opinion though. And by the way, I typed this while I was playing Punch-Out, jacking off, eating a hamburger, listening to Outkast, drinking a Vanilla Coke and reading "Why the Left Hates America" by Dan Flynn. ;)