Gun Control

[Blair]

I am sure many of you have seen this before, but I figured I would post it for the ones who haven't.

http://www.yizzo.net/userfiles/atomlowe/gunmyths.wmv

[Magita]

Do you have any idea where the report about the gun control not working can be found?

I'll search later if not, but I'm thinking these studies weren't done on a long term basis. If that's the case, then of course they didn't have an effect, people still could get guns. The way to eliminate guns isn't just to say "oh hey guys we can't have guns anymore". It would take a phasing out.

Like I said, I'd need to see the report to form a real opinion.

[AssMaster]

Gun control is for pussies. My idea of Gun control is a sharp eye, steady finger. Same with masterbation.

[hondata]

to eliminate guns, you would need to stop producing them in large quantities.

whatever bans or laws that may come up won't stop a person from getting one anyway. not much economists can do but predict the black market. It isnt like it can be stopped.

get a gun lock if you have a child in the house. simple.

[Kenny]

More guns, less crime. If all guns are banned for whatever reason, that just means law abiding people like us couldn't protect ourselves. (I just watched this video now) Anyone who thinks we need more gun control is a moron because IT DOES NOT WORK. Criminals buy their weapons illegally, and the ONLY thing they fear are armed citizens. Jesus, they put Al Sharpton on this video, what a fucking joke. If someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get it, regardless of what any law or ban says. Gun control legislation only hurts law abiding citizens because the people that gun control laws are meant to stop (criminals) don't give a shit about the laws.

There does not have to be any long term study done to determine whether or not these laws are effective. You just need to look at the amount of gun related crimes in whatever area more strict gun laws have been put into effect."If that's the case, then of course they didn't have an effect, people still could get guns." The laws were never crafted to totally outlaw guns in any state, so that argument is completely moot. People can still get guns everywhere in America, the issue here is whether required background checks and registration of guns really makes crime go down. The overwhelming majority of the data coming through on this says it does not. The moment I have enough money and time (when I move back to Dallas and get a place of my own), I will buy a pump action shotgun to put under my bed and some sort of small pistol to keep in the car. I will then get a concealed handgun license so I have a chance of surviving if some hoodrat ever tries to kill me.

To sum it up, gun control laws do not work because guns don't kill people, people kill people. Criminals don't care about background checks or registration laws because 90% of the time they're not using a legal means to purchase the gun in the first place. Big Leroy isn't going to give out background check or registration forms out of the trunk of his monte carlo.

Also, if you're going to buy a gun, be 1000% certain you can pull the trigger during that split second you have to make a decision whether or not to shoot someone. If you're not totally certain you could do that, a gun only helps your assailant.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

I agree with Chris Rock on the issue of gun control. Guns are fine, but bullets should cost $5,000 apiece. If bullets were $5,000 apiece, they wouldn't be used on stupid shit like a guy cutting another guy off in rush hour traffic.

-JP

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
I agree with Chris Rock on the issue of gun control. Guns are fine, but bullets should cost $5,000 apiece. If bullets were $5,000 apiece, they wouldn't be used on stupid shit like a guy cutting another guy off in rush hour traffic.

-JP
But then I could not afford to shoot animals. And that would suck. Cause I like to shoot things that can not shoot back. Also would a $5000 a bullet include shotgun shells? The really are not bullets. If they were $5000 apiece, I could not enjoy my most favoritest part time, skeet shooting. I agree with Kenny. Gun Control is stupid. It does no good. The people that don't deserve to own guns because they have malisous(sp?) will get their hands on them anyway.

[Michael Fornal]

Agreed.. gun control is fucking dumb. I think the arguments have been said good enough in here that it's not necessary for me to say anything worthwhile. So yeah - fuck gun control! Woo!

..but for realz. Gun control is dumb.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Originally posted by AssMaster
But then I could not afford to shoot animals. And that would suck. Cause I like to shoot things that can not shoot back. Also would a $5000 a bullet include shotgun shells? The really are not bullets. If they were $5000 apiece, I could not enjoy my most favoritest part time, skeet shooting. I agree with Kenny. Gun Control is stupid. It does no good. The people that don't deserve to own guns because they have malisous(sp?) will get their hands on them anyway.

o_O

I was kidding. I don't really form an opinion on political ideals due to Chris Rock's stand-up specials.

-JP

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
o_O

I was kidding. I don't really form an opinion on political ideals due to Chris Rock's stand-up specials.

-JP
Oh. That is funny.

[Magita]

Originally posted by Kenny
More guns, less crime. If all guns are banned for whatever reason, that just means law abiding people like us couldn't protect ourselves. (I just watched this video now) Anyone who thinks we need more gun control is a moron because IT DOES NOT WORK. Criminals buy their weapons illegally, and the ONLY thing they fear are armed citizens. Jesus, they put Al Sharpton on this video, what a fucking joke. If someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get it, regardless of what any law or ban says. Gun control legislation only hurts law abiding citizens because the people that gun control laws are meant to stop (criminals) don't give a shit about the laws.

There does not have to be any long term study done to determine whether or not these laws are effective. You just need to look at the amount of gun related crimes in whatever area more strict gun laws have been put into effect."If that's the case, then of course they didn't have an effect, people still could get guns." The laws were never crafted to totally outlaw guns in any state, so that argument is completely moot. People can still get guns everywhere in America, the issue here is whether required background checks and registration of guns really makes crime go down. The overwhelming majority of the data coming through on this says it does not. The moment I have enough money and time (when I move back to Dallas and get a place of my own), I will buy a pump action shotgun to put under my bed and some sort of small pistol to keep in the car. I will then get a concealed handgun license so I have a chance of surviving if some hoodrat ever tries to kill me.

To sum it up, gun control laws do not work because guns don't kill people, people kill people. Criminals don't care about background checks or registration laws because 90% of the time they're not using a legal means to purchase the gun in the first place. Big Leroy isn't going to give out background check or registration forms out of the trunk of his monte carlo.

Also, if you're going to buy a gun, be 1000% certain you can pull the trigger during that split second you have to make a decision whether or not to shoot someone. If you're not totally certain you could do that, a gun only helps your assailant.

I was talking about gun control on a national level, not a state-to-state type thing. I know that if you ban guns in one state, someone could just go over to the next state and buy one. If we stop production and selling of guns in the entire U.S., then it'd be much harder to buy one illegally, so in theory, the supply would run out, and there would be less gun violence. You can't say this does or doesn't work, because it hasn't been tested here (that I know of).

[Nyeh]

foreign countries

[RaBBit]

Its funny cause 90% of people in Texas already carry a gun in some places. But anyways
:agreed:
Gun Control is just stupid, plain and simple.

[derekisdman]

Want to carry my pistol Rabbit? You can control it however you wish.

[Blair]

I have heard the Sweeds have a rediculously low crime rate. What is their policy?

[Kenny]

Originally posted by Magita
I was talking about gun control on a national level, not a state-to-state type thing. I know that if you ban guns in one state, someone could just go over to the next state and buy one. If we stop production and selling of guns in the entire U.S., then it'd be much harder to buy one illegally, so in theory, the supply would run out, and there would be less gun violence. You can't say this does or doesn't work, because it hasn't been tested here (that I know of).

And that's what my original point was... You can't ban all guns in the country. The bottom line is that if someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get it. A national gun ban will not work. Ever. Stopping production in the US would just increase the smuggling rate into the country.

[hondata]

i could be wrong you know, but....

wouldn't adding very high restrictions to guns- almost to go as far as say banning them---

wouldn't that infringe on our civil rights and contradict part of the...oh ya bill of rights and/or constitutional ammendment....?

[PerfectBitch]

*waits for Graemes input on Gun Control* :D

[Kenny]

Originally posted by !@#$%
i could be wrong you know, but....

wouldn't adding very high restrictions to guns- almost to go as far as say banning them---

wouldn't that infringe on our civil rights and contradict part of the...oh ya bill of rights and/or constitutional ammendment....?

Not civil rights, but definitely the constitution, which I haven't even mentioned yet. You'd basically have to do away with the 2nd amendment, and the NRA, the nation's biggest interest group (right up there with AARP) would destroy any politician who actually tried to do away with the 2nd amendment.

[hondata]

im going to go buy me a handgun.

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by !@#$%
im going to go buy me a handgun.
and use it to shoot people who want to ban guns?

[hondata]

Originally posted by AssMaster
and use it to shoot people who want to ban guns?

and use it to shoot people before they shoot me. j/k

I'd take a licensing course even though it isn't required for our state.

something nice but simple.

like the Beretta 9mm NEOS lineup. something like that

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by !@#$%
and use it to shoot people before they shoot me. j/k

I'd take a licensing course even though it isn't required for our state.

something nice but simple.

like the Beretta 9mm NEOS lineup. something like that

Do you have much experiance w/ handguns? They suck ass in my opinion. I can not hit shit with them. Give me a shot gun anyday. I am all about just pointing, with a shot gun stuffs easier to hit.

[Kenny]

Originally posted by AssMaster
Do you have much experiance w/ handguns? They suck ass in my opinion. I can not hit shit with them. Give me a shot gun anyday. I am all about just pointing, with a shot gun stuffs easier to hit.

In the words of the Nac county sherriff, "The sound a criminal fears the most is the "ch-chick" of the single shot pump action shotgun."

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by Kenny
In the words of the Nac county sherriff, "The sound a criminal fears the most is the "ch-chick" of the single shot pump action shotgun."


Nac has a stupid sherrif. No offense. But if a shot gun is a pump action it is not a single shot. A single shot shot gun ussually consist of a breakover. And it makes very little noise. Next time you see the Nac sherrif tell him he needs to work on his catch phrase.

[Blair]

Originally posted by AssMaster
Nac has a stupid sherrif. No offense. But if a shot gun is a pump action it is not a single shot. A single shot shot gun ussually consist of a breakover. And it makes very little noise. Next time you see the Nac sherrif tell him he needs to work on his catch phrase.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Actually licensing is required in our state in the form of a concealed handgun licence. Not to actually own a handhun, but for permission to carry one in public it is required.

*Interesting Gun Fact of the Day* During Archery Season it is illegal to carry a handgun with you unless you have a concealed handgun licence.

EDIT: I want this:
http://www.glock.com/g18.htm
Glock 18. Choose either semi or fully automatic modes. 17 round clip. Of course, it is only available to law enforcement personell only, but that's of no consequence.

[Furor]

I find alot of people are for gun control, especially when it comes to 'assault weapons'.

To these people I request you find the facts.

http://www.gunfacts.info/GunFacts3.3Screen.pdf

Only 1% of police officers murdered were killed using "assault weapons". They were twice as likely to be killed with their own handgun.

Just over 2% of criminals that used guns used "assault weapons".

Only 1.4% of recovered crime weapons are models covered under the 1994 assault weapons ban.

Just a few.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Er, are these statistics from the decade in which the weapons were banned? If so, aren't they naturally a bit skewed?

-JP

[MandeepKlas]

The swedes have a low crime rate because their taxes are sooo high..

check it out... crime rate and taxes are directly related.. places with the highest taxes have lowest crime rate and vice versa...

think about it... 50% of ur income goes to the government... you're gunna enjoy what you can get out of life... not try to kill others with something you probably can't afford anyways..

[AssMaster]

I think
sweden has a
lower crime
rate,
cause there
is not
as many
minorities.

[Kenny]

Originally posted by MandeepKlas
The swedes have a low crime rate because their taxes are sooo high..

check it out... crime rate and taxes are directly related.. places with the highest taxes have lowest crime rate and vice versa...

think about it... 50% of ur income goes to the government... you're gunna enjoy what you can get out of life... not try to kill others with something you probably can't afford anyways..

That is absurd. Correlation does not equal causation. If this premise applied everywhere, then the Soviet Union would have been a happy, crime free place because everything a person got was from the government, and every bit of work they did was for the government. There was lots of crime in the Soviet Union.

Shoddy assumption, canuck.

[MandeepKlas]

everybody is a minority in some way.. you can't just blame it on the fact that there are minorities in the country...

you want to talk about minorities look at canada....

even british columbia... where i live im a 'minority' to the native indians... there are maybe 10 'african americans' in the city i live in half of the white people are either dutch reform or menonite some catholic go slightly to the west of my city and the majority of the people are east indian and then a little more to the west only about two hours from here and the majority is asian...
canada is one big melting pot of minorities... and we dont have a quarter of the crime rate... and its denfinatly not that we dont have the guns... because we do... canada is all about hunting. i dunno... i think blaming ur 'crime' on the fact that you have minorities is a cop out

[MandeepKlas]

there is a difference between high taxes and communism

[MandeepKlas]

im not merely suggesting that if you raise ur taxes its gunna be the best place on earth..

maybe you should look into what the swedes do.... and you'll learn from them....

[MandeepKlas]

you all have such a scared outlook on life..

i have to have a gun for protection in case some person comes and jumps me...?

what kinda life is that to live..???

ever walk down the street and say hi to everyone you see.... rather than be suspicious of what they might do to you??

is it really necessary to have a gun on or near you at all times.???
sure gun control probably doesn't work because those bad asses that want them will get them anyways....but what good does it do for you to have one on you too... if it really makes you feel better to have the gun on you wouldn't you say that is a very false sense of secuirty..??

my sense of security is knowing i can walk down the roads drive into the shoddy neighbourhoods and not have to worry about someone pulling a gun on me... because the reality is... it doesn't happen that much here...

[Kevin]

Communism is paying high taxes...High taxes as almost all of your money goes to the government

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by MandeepKlas
you all have such a scared outlook on life..

i have to have a gun for protection in case some person comes and jumps me...?

what kinda life is that to live..???

ever walk down the street and say hi to everyone you see.... rather than be suspicious of what they might do to you??

is it really necessary to have a gun on or near you at all times.???
sure gun control probably doesn't work because those bad asses that want them will get them anyways....but what good does it do for you to have one on you too... if it really makes you feel better to have the gun on you wouldn't you say that is a very false sense of secuirty..??

my sense of security is knowing i can walk down the roads drive into the shoddy neighbourhoods and not have to worry about someone pulling a gun on me... because the reality is... it doesn't happen that much here...
That fucks the rest of us who like to have guns to kill animals. And guns do not create a false since of security. Maybe an unloaded gun. But if that fucker got some bullets in it, you can blow the fuck out of someone that is trying to harm(or just pissing you off). That is not false security, that is straight up security.

[Kevin]

She lives in Canada, of course shes not used to walking down the street or around school without knowing which thug is going to come jump you. If you walk around downtown dallas without some type of protection, or alot of big black thug friends, then youre f'ed in the a if someone tries to mug you, which is an extremely good chance especially if youre walking around alone.

[MandeepKlas]

so you need to have a gun on you at all times in case there is some animal around for you to kill...??

you would shoot someone that is pissing you off.??? cool
better hope they dont have a gun... cuz hell they could get you first..

having guns on you at all times makes you more paranoid than anything... dont you get it..???

all im saying is.. you come here and you can walk down the roads.. you can go to places... you can see people.. you can talk to strangers... and you dont have to worry about them pulling a gun on you... and guess what... then you can take ur shotgun out... and go hunting... there are gun laws here... oo you have to register it! thats it... big deal... i dont know why you want to have assult rifles there... doesnt that scare you...?? at all.?

if you all just tried to adopt a different way of thinking maybe you wouldn't need to have the gun on you in case someone was trying to harm you...

[Kevin]

all im saying is.. you come here and you can walk down the roads.. you can go to places... you can see people.. you can talk to strangers... and you dont have to worry about them pulling a gun on you... and guess what... then you can take ur shotgun out... and go hunting... there are gun laws here... oo you have to register it! thats it... big deal... i dont know why you want to have assult rifles there... doesnt that scare you...?? at all.?
This isnt canada, dumbass. You come walk the streets unarmed and we'll see how quick you get raped/mugged

[MandeepKlas]

and what is the huge difference between canada and the united states of america... ?
the way our governments let us think..???

we can get all the guns you can get... and yet.. its not a necessity..

we have 'big black thugs' but we have a lot of whites here too that dont do 'good things'

we have the same people as you do in the states... we just choose to live differently...
you choose to live in fear... we choose to embrace the life that we have.. and not be afraid of walking down the streets...

[NOFX13]

Originally posted by Kevin
This isnt canada, dumbass. You come walk the streets unarmed and we'll see how quick you get raped/mugged



*sings god bless america*

you must be oh so proud

[Kevin]

canada and mexico need to fight

[MandeepKlas]

im sorry that you have to live in a horrid place like that....

im proud to be canadian if it means that i dont have to worry about getting raped or mugged within hours of being in my country walking down the streets..
im proud to be canadian if it means that i dont have to worry about being shot at or jumped... just because
and im proud to be canadian if it means that i can love and be around all groups including minorities and all get along...

looking at it that way... what do you have to be proud about??

[MandeepKlas]

no no.. you see.. canada doesn't need to fight with anybody.... because we get along with people...

ever heard of the saying.... live and let live.? mmm apparently not...

[MandeepKlas]

hell you can live afraid all you want....
and i'll live happy and sound..:) without fear..

[NatrlBornThrllr]

You're saying that forcing people to pay more taxes (thus lowering the amount of money the average citizen possesses) is a causation of lower crime rates? That's absurd. Crime flourishes in lower classes. This is a proven fact. Raising taxes in our country will, if anything, cause an increase in crime rate, as it will force people to live below their current standard of living, and push people down into a class of society where crime naturally flourishes. You can't look at two countries and say, country A has high taxes and a low crime rate, and country B has low taxes and a high crime rate; therefore I can conclude that the higher the taxes the lower the crime rate. That's ludicrous. That would be like me looking at two countries; Country A has legalized marijuana and a low rate of abortions. Country B has prohibition of marijuana and a high rate of abortions. Therefore, to lower the rate of abortions you should probably legalize marijuana. Like Kenny said, correlation does not equal causation.

Your argument is a silly one, and I'm not even sure why I took my time to respond to it.

Oh yeah, and I live in America, and I'm neither a criminal, nor a person who fears for his safety. Don't play it off like Canada doesn't have crime in certain parts of it's cities. You're being condescending and making out your country to be a crime-free utopia, which it isn't. Every country has crime. Every citizen faces the possibility of being a victim. Stop acting like crime isn't a problem in your society...it makes you sound both ignorant and naive.

-JP

[AssMaster]

I still like you MadKeepas. But I sorta want to go to Canada and rape and mug people, cause I know they are not going to shoot me, cause they ain't got no guns.

Seriously.

[hondata]

Originally posted by MandeepKlas
hell you can live afraid all you want....
and i'll live happy and sound..:) without fear..

*pulls out gun

Put all of your flu vaccines in this bag. NOW!

[Blair]

We are making America seem more hardcore than it is. Kevin, yes, there are parts of Dallas , (or any large city, Canadian cities included) where crime is abundant and the threat of being raped or mugged is higher. However, this is not the case in the suburbs, which correct me if I am wrong, most people in the United States live in.

Also, most people do not carry guns in public, in fact, most people don't own guns period. So your argument of being scared walking down the street knowing everyone has a gun is kind of rediculous Mandee.

Then again, these facts shouldn't infringe on our rights to own firearms. In fact, if every responsible citizen (as in not felons and other such criminals) carried a firearm in public, I guarantee you crime would all but about cease. It goes along with the thought process of those who are made nervous by the presence of police would also be nervous if they knew EVERY upstanding citizen around them had a means of stopping them from commiting a crime, not to mention killing them at the same time. Why should law abiding citizens worry?

[MandeepKlas]

I wasn't saying Canada is a utopia.. and i dont even begin to believe that we have everything right.. because we dont.
what i was saying is that we dont walk around with guns because its not necessary and you are right there are parts of canada that are 'bad' like i said we have our badasses here too... the difference is we choose not to feel the need to walk around with guns or keep them in our posession in the majority or even minority of the time... the majority of canada has guns for hunting.... the majority of canada doesn't worry about being attacked... not because it can't happen... but more because why would you want to live like that...?

and ur right if everyone had a gun it would be rediculous.. i mean think about it... half the scared shitless people out there would be trigger happy only creating something worse than that which you have.

and it is ur right to have a gun.? even if you went by everything in the constitution as law.. think about the guns when it was written.. are they anything like the weapons that we have now..?

and about the taxes... it wasn't just o here is the us.. here is swedes... it was a study on all of western civilizations... no third world contries involved.. sure it doesn't say that is the cause... but it could be a contributing factor... there is no real way to find out a cause of crime... you say minorities... its also a possibility... but there is no way to 'prove' it. i gaurentee you make a country with no minorities and high taxes and there will still be crime...

the big argument here is what do you have to be afraid of... just because its a right doesn't mean its a necessity.. we have the right to bear firearms... but we dont...
there is nothing real or pressing for us to be afraid of... we havn't done anything to anybody, we havn't angered any countries, there is really nothing for us to be afraid of... the only real wars canada has had.. was to stop the americans from invading... and well.... that was a long time ago... (not including the world wars of course) and frankly... we're not worried about it now either...

i guess the big difference between canada and the us is the way we view other countries... and other people in turn... i see other people and see good.. i look at countries and expect the best out of them... of course its not always true... but neither is looking down on them... and believing ur better... which is what americans do quite often... you have every right to feel that way because you have done a lot of good... but lets not forget about the other side of it.

stopping the production of guns makes no difference the people who want them will find them.. im not an idiot. i know that... guns for every citizen isn't the answer either... there is absolutly no reason why there can't be regulations for having a gun tho.. at least make it a little harder to get them..?

im not sitting here trying to say... I am better than you because I am Canadian... because you know what in the end.. what the fuck difference does it make.... im just saying instead of living in paranoia of which guy sitting around you might or might not have a gun... why not stop take a breath of fresh air... a gulp of clean water.... and be happy to have what you have... man you could be a lot worse off then worrying about whether you are going to be allowed to have guns or not... and you can call me a pussy for saying stuff like that... because thats all canadians are.... a bunch of pussies that dont like to fight.... and ur right... the vast majority of us dont... not in the physical means anyways... i'd much rather shoot my mouth off then shoot a gun at someone...

[Magita]

Originally posted by Kenny
And that's what my original point was... You can't ban all guns in the country. The bottom line is that if someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get it. A national gun ban will not work. Ever. Stopping production in the US would just increase the smuggling rate into the country.

And my original point was that you can't know for sure, because it's never been effectively put into action. But hey I'm glad you know all possible outcomes of everything. <3

p.s: You can kill animals in more ways (yes, painlessly) than just shooting them.
p.s.s.: The constitution allows you to have weapons, it doesn't say "guns".
p.s.s.s: I'm not really pro-gun control, I'm not pro-guns, I'm just saying less guns would mean less gun violence.

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by Magita
And my original point was that you can't know for sure, because it's never been effectively put into action. But hey I'm glad you know all possible outcomes of everything. <3

p.s: You can kill animals in more ways (yes, painlessly) than just shooting them.
p.s.s.: The constitution allows you to have weapons, it doesn't say "guns".
p.s.s.s: I'm not really pro-gun control, I'm not pro-guns, I'm just saying less guns would mean less gun violence.
If you take away my guns, I am going to start using clubs. I will slowly beat my animals to death. People too. Lot more painful.

[Magita]

Originally posted by AssMaster
If you take away my guns, I am going to start using clubs. I will slowly beat my animals to death. People too. Lot more painful.

I think that's the idea. Clubs are definitely harder to kill people with.

For one, you have to be all up close. Secondly, that's icky.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Stereotype entire nations much?




the difference is we choose not to feel the need to walk around with guns or keep them in our posession

-Canadians don't see a necessity in owning weapons. Americans do.
(I don't own a weapon. I know very few people that do...and none who carry it with them on a regular basis). Silly stereotypes.




(I) guess the big difference between canada and the us is the way we view other countries... and other people in turn... i see other people and see good.. i look at countries and expect the best out of them...

-The "big difference" is that Canadians see people as naturally good. Americans don't.
(Actually, I think people are naturally good, but that fundamental optimism doesn't hinder me from seeing the evil that does exist; I'm simply not that naive).




looking down on them... and believing ur better... which is what americans do quite often...

-Americans, by and large, are condescending and look down on other countries.
(Quite the contrary. Not only do I not look down on other countries, I rarely even give them a second thought. It's not that I think America is better than Canada, I just don't care enough about Canada to form an opinion. Don't mistake an apathetic attitude for a condescending attitude).




im just saying instead of living in paranoia of which guy sitting around you might or might not have a gun... why not stop take a breath of fresh air... a gulp of clean water.... and be happy to have what you have...

-Americans constantly live in a state of paranoia, when they should lighten up and be happy for what they have.
(Again, I chuckle at this, because you seem to think that our demand for the right to bear arms equates into some sort of universal paranoia...that Americans are constantly looking over their shoulders, waiting for some sort of vicious attack. You couldn't be more incorrect in your assumption.)

When you weren't tossing out a baseless stereotype about the United States and it's citizens, you were busy completely contradicting yourself and your previous posts:




my sense of security is knowing i can walk down the roads drive into the shoddy neighbourhoods and not have to worry about someone pulling a gun on me... because the reality is... it doesn't happen that much here...

there are parts of canada that are 'bad' like i said we have our badasses here too...

Wait, what? So, there are "badasses" (see: criminals) in bad parts of town...but you don't need to worry about those criminals breaking the law because it doesn't happen?




The swedes have a low crime rate because their taxes are sooo high..

sure it doesn't say that is the cause... but it could be a contributing factor... there is no real way to find out a cause of crime...

They have a low crime rate because their taxes are high...but the study didn't say that was the cause, and there's no way to find a cause of crime. Contradictory? A bit.

Well, aside from the stereotypes...those are the only two real points you made, so I guess I'm through quoting your response.

Here's what it all comes down to: crime exists in every society. There are drug addicts, thieves, murderers, rapists...everywhere. In America, in Canada, in Sweden, in the Eskimo villages inhabiting the most remote parts of the arctic circle. Crime is a natural part of society. Some Americans see this and choose to own a firearm. Why? If the shit hits the fan, I've got something to fall back on. There is always the possibility of victimization, so why not be prepared in the event that it does happen?

The fact that we don't turn a blind eye to crime doesn't mean that we're all walking around in a constant state of paranoia. Simply put, we recognize crime as being a natural problem, and choose to take measures to protect ourselves (be it owning a handgun, or installing a home or car alarm). You seem to think that just because some citizens prepare for the worst case scenario, that they're living in a state of paranoid fear. That's like saying "oh, you have homeowners insurance? Well, people in my country don't feel the need for that, because we're not constantly worrying, paranoid about a house fire. I mean, sure, houses catch on fire, but it just doesn't happen all that often here."

I honestly have to sit back and chuckle at your views on America, because they are ridiculously distorted. If you ever came to live in America for an extended period of time, you'd find that our society is not much different from your own (aside from the fact that we're better than you, we don't believe in the good of man, and we're all a bunch of paranoid gunslingers).

I'm tired of reading your posts and responding to them (and this is only my second reply). If you want to argue issues of fact, we can do that. If you insist on continuously and baselessly stereotyping Americans, then I've got better things to do with my time.

-JP

[MandeepKlas]

The majority of the stereotyping was done on 'your' not yours per say but on the other side. i merely expanded on the facts that you guys put out on ur own... that you can't walk down the streets without worrying about a thug jumping you. I know there is not much difference between canada and the united states. how could there be.?? its two countries and the only thing that separates them is an imaginary line not language, or religion or any real major political views either...

of course you forgot to include the... end of my quote... it doesn't happen. is all you seemed to read... perhaps you forgot about the... that much.
Reality in my town... there is very little crime... other than the amount of people who grow pot... ... not a very scary industry.

dont obscure yourself so much to think that i walk around with rosy colored glasses on all the time. because i dont. i know what happens i know that people get raped or jumped. the paranoia part of it came in from ur little buddy kevin who seems to believe that a couple of minutes on the streets and i'd be getting raped... he didn't paint a very pretty picture of ur country.

im not trying to say that people shouldn't have guns.. and people shouldn't be able to protect themselves, because there is no reason why they couldn't... but i dont think its unfair to say that restrictions on who can have guns is unreasonable. sure it wont stop the people from getting them... but why not make it a little more difficult on them.??


you may not like what i have to say... but all im trying to do is bring a different light on the subject.. instead of everybody getting together and agreeing.... the best way to talk about political issues is to have someone who disagrees... dont you think..? at least you get to see the light on the other side... no matter how much that light is aggrivating to ur eyes...;)

[AssMaster]

You can not win, he will rape your post and turn everything you say around. Save yourself the trouble. Turn the other cheek. This short little post will probably be raped too. Wish this poor little post had a firearm to defend itself :(

[Kevin]

Hahah, I think its funny how my complete sarcasm spurred such a heated debate. Looks like my job here is done :).

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Originally posted by MandeepKlas
The majority of the stereotyping was done on 'your' not yours per say but on the other side. i merely expanded on the facts that you guys put out on ur own... that you can't walk down the streets without worrying about a thug jumping you. I know there is not much difference between canada and the united states. how could there be.?? its two countries and the only thing that separates them is an imaginary line not language, or religion or any real major political views either...

of course you forgot to include the... end of my quote... it doesn't happen. is all you seemed to read... perhaps you forgot about the... that much.
Reality in my town... there is very little crime... other than the amount of people who grow pot... ... not a very scary industry.

dont obscure yourself so much to think that i walk around with rosy colored glasses on all the time. because i dont. i know what happens i know that people get raped or jumped. the paranoia part of it came in from ur little buddy kevin who seems to believe that a couple of minutes on the streets and i'd be getting raped... he didn't paint a very pretty picture of ur country.

im not trying to say that people shouldn't have guns.. and people shouldn't be able to protect themselves, because there is no reason why they couldn't... but i dont think its unfair to say that restrictions on who can have guns is unreasonable. sure it wont stop the people from getting them... but why not make it a little more difficult on them.??


you may not like what i have to say... but all im trying to do is bring a different light on the subject.. instead of everybody getting together and agreeing.... the best way to talk about political issues is to have someone who disagrees... dont you think..? at least you get to see the light on the other side... no matter how much that light is aggrivating to ur eyes...;)

I agree with everything you said here, from beginning to end.

In your earlier posts, it seemed that you were clinging to Kevin's comments as truth, while saying that Canadians (or at least, I took it as Canadians in general) have absolutely no worries about crime. Hence my long-winded response about how silly it was to A) believe that all Americans are constantly paranoid, and B) be naive about the fact that crime flourishes in your society also (though, given, not to the extent that it does in ours).

I do still take issue with a few things you said earlier (but didn't touch on in your most recent reply)...one being that "Americans quite often look down on other countries and believe they're better," the other being the contradictory stance you took on the taxes and crime rate issue.

Oh, and ignore "AssMaster." He's just a bit cranky about the fact that he's not good at picking up on sarcasm, so he's going thread to thread trying to disrupt my other conversations. I think he's mad at me. :'(

-JP

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr

Oh, and ignore "AssMaster." He's just a bit cranky about the fact that he's not good at picking up on sarcasm, so he's going thread to thread trying to disrupt my other conversations. I think he's mad at me. :'(

-JP
I am not mad at you.


* Grabs JP and kisses him.*

I love you, man. You know the gay kind.

[Furor]

When I get rich, I'm buying a house in Canada for the summers. Really lovely weather up there.

Loved Banff. Loved Jasper. Loved Quebec City.

But for winter time, I'll take ole Louisiana.

Guns.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Originally posted by AssMaster
I am not mad at you.


* Grabs JP and kisses him.*

I love you, man. You know the gay kind.

Haha, you actually do make me chuckle more often than not. I'm not sure why we constantly argue over the stupidest shit. *shrug*

Oh, and Furor's sig is still the best thing of all time, and continues to turn me wicked gay.

-JP

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Haha, you actually do make me chuckle more often than not. I'm not sure why we constantly argue over the stupidest shit. *shrug*

Oh, and Furor's sig is still the best thing of all time, and continues to turn me wicked gay.

-JP
Ha ha, whatever go watch a movie. LOL. Do you know someone named Diana Lillard? She goes, or went to the college in San Marcus. She works or worked at chilis.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Ha ha, whatever go watch a movie. LOL. Do you know someone named Diana Lillard? She goes, or went to the college in San Marcus. She works or worked at chilis.

Negative, but if she's hot and willing, I may make a trip to Chilis tonight.

-JP

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Negative, but if she's hot and willing, I may make a trip to Chilis tonight.

-JP
She is my cousin, and no she is not that hot. But she is very cool to hang out with. I am not sure if she works in San Marcus or Austin. I think San Marcus. IF you ever go there, tell her Kyle is mad at her for lack of contact. And do not tell her I said she was not hot.

[Furor]

She is my cousin, and no she is not that hot. But she is very cool to hang out with. I am not sure if she works in San Marcus or Austin. I think San Marcus. IF you ever go there, tell her Kyle is mad at her for lack of contact. And do not tell her I said she was not hot.

You didn't say she wasn't willing...

[MandeepKlas]

You'd want to be in canada just for the summers.?
I take it you dont like the snow..???

Im so excited about winter coming because of snowboarding..:) i already got my seasons pass for one of the mountains here :D

and JP i dont take things personally or get offended by it. everybody has opinions and are definatly allowed to state it... and you know what our views are probably very similar, the big 'argument' came because kevin decided he wanted to make ur country look like well... not a very good place to be.. hahaha which i know isn't true because aside from the accents you guys have ;) when i've been in the us its really no different than being in canada

[durrettd]

Long response for first page of posts resulted in tearing Canada boy a new one. Continued reading and completion of the thread resulted in removing post.

JP, per your usual standard there is little we disagree with. Canada boy is not only wrong, he has exposed his ignorance of American culture and his biases. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Now to add:
Canada has ~32.5 million people in it compared to the US's ~293 million.
The significance of class division and ethnic diversity in Canada is, of the whole, microscopic in comparison to that of the United States.
Sweden?...A population of 8.9 million, an ethnic diversity consisting of Norwegians Europeans. Class diversity is nearly non-existent due to an expansive, liberal, and intrusive social welfare system. These comparisons you seek to draw ignore the very socio-economic situations in the relative countries. You, Mr. MandeepKlas, don't seem to have any understanding of sociology or socio-economic relations. Quit trying to apply Canadian standards to other countries that clearly do not mirror your demographics. Crime statistics can't be looked at on their numbers alone... I hope you're at least intelligent enough to see that.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Just for clarification, Canada Boy has a vagina...and that's not a grade-school insult, either. :) Okay, now, back to the post...

-JP

[durrettd]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Just for clarification, Canada Boy has a vagina...and that's not a grade-school insult, either. :) Okay, now, back to the post...

-JP

Oh, ok... that explains so much. :)

[MandeepKlas]

uhh.. thanks... for umm clarifying that..;)

i know about the population differences.. i'd have to umm... be a bit of a moron not to have realized that... i mean.. the whole population of canada is about the size of the population of...well.. probably close to california... and i wouldn't doubt thats a huge contributing factor of the crime rate differences. im not trying to sayone country is better than the other, if that is how you took it. i explained earlier about where the stereotypes came from... and they were baisically from your own mouths... i guess mostly kevins.. however i dont take kevins word as gold because well... he's a bit of a moron sometimes... no offence.

im not trying to argue with everyone here, i find it a little humerous though... that you guys were almost bad mouthing where you live.. talking of how its so dangerous and stuff... until little Canadian GIRL came along and elaborated on it.... lol and suddenly... its not so bad after all..;)

Just as i would never blame you or look down on you if you did think the US was better than Canada because well.... you live there dont you.? it is your country isn't it.?? lol you wouldn't be very patriotic if you thought everyone was better..;) Same with me... of course i am biast to canada... im Canadian. That is one thing we'll probably never see eye to eye on.. not because one is better than the other... but because you have to have some sort of pride in your country... otherwise.. what in the hell are you doing there.?

[Kenny]

Mandeep is still ignorant, and I'm impressed with Durrett's response considering he was piss ass drunk when posting.

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by Kenny
Mandeep is still ignorant, and I'm impressed with Durrett's response considering he was piss ass drunk when posting.
I think calling some one ignorant for having opposing views of you is a little harsh. I do not agree with her stance on gun control, but I do not think that make her ignorant.

[NatrlBornThrllr]

Originally posted by AssMaster
I think calling some one ignorant for having opposing views of you is a little harsh. I do not agree with her stance on gun control, but I do not think that make her ignorant.

Not to start another argument with you, but I disagree. He didn't state that she was ignorant, simply that she was ignorant of American culture. I think that's a fair statement based on how willingly she took Kevin's tongue-in-cheek statements and ran with them as truth. Not to speak for him, but I don't think he was insulting her for having a conflicting opinion; merely for the way in which she expressed her opinion, and more so, the thoughts she expressed about American culture. Everybody is ignorant of some things, and I don't think bringing that to light is the same as flat out calling somebody stupid.

On a side note, I also really liked Durrett's mention of population discrepancies and the relative lack of class and ethnic diversity in Canada and Sweden. Great point that didn't even cross my mind until he brought it up.

*Edited, after people have replied, because there was a typo and I'm a perfectionist. Damnit.*

-JP

[AssMaster]

Ok. I just think ignorant his a little harsh of a word. How about misinformed. This is the first time she has ventured out of the "Jason" thread, I sure with all the harshness she has received she will probably retreat in to her shell. Not everyone has skin as think as the AssMaster. LOL

[Kenny]

Originally posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Not to start another argument with you with you, but I disagree. He didn't state that she was ignorant, simply that she was ignorant of American culture. I think that's a fair statement based on how willingly she took Kevin's tongue-in-cheek statements and ran with them as truth. Not to speak for him, but I don't think he was insulting her for having a conflicting opinion; merely for the way in which she expressed her opinion, and more so, the thoughts she expressed about American culture. Everybody is ignorant of some things, and I don't think bringing that to light is the same as flat out calling somebody stupid.

On a side note, I also really liked Durrett's mention of population discrepancies and the relative lack of class and ethnic diversity in Canada and Sweden. Great point that didn't even cross my mind until he brought it up.

-JP

Exactly my point JP. Well put. And Kyle, the canadians have tried to talk politics with us before, so I base my ignorant comment from past threads as well as this one.

[NOFX13]

kenny even if i were to talk about politics with you...its all wrong because everything I think is all wrong to you..so whats the point?? and you call us ignorant..wake up

[Kevin]

What a typical fucking comment from the canadian. I swear, you guys are arrogant and ignorant. You believe anything someone says and take it like gold, whether its me or michael fucking moore. You turn a blind eye to the real facts and believe only what you choose to believe, and what is easier to believe. You have been slammed, shammed, and exposed in every thread both of you have posted in. You guys are arrogant to the point that you can't admit when you're wrong, and you can't admit when someone makes a decent point or points out a fallacy in your case. Know when to fucking admit defeat. It makes me sick reading yalls ignorant posts when you are all blatantly wrong, and have been exposed as wrong by more than one person. I'm not talking about just this thread, but every single political thread and the etc. drama that goes on around here.

The best type of debator is the one who knows when to quit. Learn it.

[NOFX13]

dude you are upset because you cant have a serious discussion with my girlfriend without being *sarcastic*...why should you even try? you are a fuckin moron..dont respond theres no point..

[Kevin]

Want to know the background behind my posts?

MMC is meant to be something that is fun, not to type out 4 or 5 paragraph responses. Last time I checked, writing esseys isnt under my "fun things to do" list. Rather, it is more interesting to me to throw in trivial and pot-stirring comments, just to shake things up. Hell, if it wasn't for my blatant sarcasm this thread wouldn't have gone past about 30 posts. You and mandeep's blatant arrogance though has pissed me off. When I read the political forum, I very rarely post anything with substance with regards to the topic, unless it is a topic that strikes interest with me, such as chemical and biological weapons. I would much rather see JP or Kenny carry out the debate, and me observe, than to type out the posts myself. I could of absolutely destroyed both you and mandeep in this thread, but like I said earlier, typing out 800 word responses "in my spare time", doesnt strike it as entertaining.

I wouldn't expect any of you guys to think any different of me, since afterall, I very rarely post something much more than a few lines.

Bottomline: Both of yalls ignorance and arrogance both to political issues, and to social issues, pisses me off. It takes alot to make me pretty angry or annoyed, but both of you have accomplished that.

Both of you should feel honored I pissed away 5 minutes of my life to type this post with regards to yall ;).

[NOFX13]

i will respond to whatever you said when im sbober,

[AssMaster]

*Pulls nutsack through zipper hole in hope to create ackward silence and diffuse situation.

[MandeepKlas]

ignorant... stereotype.... hey kenny... kevin... you may want to get out the dictionary and check out ur pics beside the definitions...

how is that for a short and sweet post.?

if you dont like to get into long debates perhaps the political forum isn't for you.
if posting long posts isn't fun for you... how the hell do you know if its fun for me.??
and to top it off... my opinion doesn't make me ignorant, at least i have one.

[MandeepKlas]

just because you dont agree with me doesn't mean you can blast my country doesn't mean you can say shit about the people that live here. just because i dont agree with you it doesn't make me ignorant, it makes you ignorant to not look at the other side.

I know that there are problems with my country just as there are with yours, but i choose not to look at the problems.. not because im ignorant, but because i view life as a chance to live not to worry about when im going to die. I know that isn't how all canadians feel and im sure that there are americans who feel the same way as i do.

as for the other remark earlier when whomever that was found out i was a girl and said that makes sense... im not sure if you meant that in a derrogative way as to how i think or if you just meant that my name makes sense now, if it was in some sexually demeaning way.. .i just want to make it understood... that... is a pretty damn good way to show ur ignorance.

and way to go assmaster. i feel the same way about you... you have never done or said anything to me that would give me the right not to like you and your views would never change that... because you are entitled to them just as i am to mine. so thank you in your support

[durrettd]

...
...
...
...
...

[Kevin]

Originally posted by durrettd
...
...
...
...
...:agreed:

[NOFX13]

i'm not with stupid


k-mart sucks

[AssMaster]

K-mart is cool. Martha Stewart is hot.

[Blair]

And is being forced to munch carpets at the moment.

[AssMaster]

Originally posted by Blair
And is being forced to munch carpets at the moment.
That just makes her hotter.

[MandeepKlas]

NOFX speaking:
mmm carpet


i hear shes bitching about the food at prison...give it up